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Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 6:35 pm    Post subject: Perennial Veg  Reply with quote    

I really like foraging and the idea of low maintenance gardening. perennial vegetables seem an ideal way forward to me and I would like some more ideas of what to grow.

Currently we have Jerusalem & Globe artichokes; Welsh onions (not doing well), sorrel, asparagus and plenty of herbs & fruit. I have also got a packet of edible wild flower seed with many perennials in that I can list if anyone is interested?

Do people grow any other types of long lived vegetables either traditional or more exotic? Self seeding plants like nasturtiums could also make it onto the list.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44229
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Permaculture is what you're after, I'm on the hunt for someone to write us up a little introductory article, watch this space...

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44229
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There's a couple of excellent courses led py Patrck Whitfield listed in the Events Calendar

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Permaculture is what you're after, I'm on the hunt for someone to write us up a little introductory article, watch this space...


I was going to mention that as I've seen your comments and looked at the site via the web links. I've just asked Bugs to order it to see what it's like.

I'm not sure about the courses as I'm sort of half way there and we both like to experiment. I'm hoping for a few good tips.

nettie



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 5886
Location: Suffolk
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hi Treacy, I've got a couple of wild rocket plants that do quite well

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44229
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

PW is probably THE northern hemisphere's permaculture guru, it would be well worth going on one of the short courses (if you've got the time)

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14971
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

sorrell is all I can think of off the top of my head (although nettles would do as well)

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

We can now 'forage' for rocket in our garden after leaving some rows to go to seed. Flea beetle doesn't seem to affect it as bad.

A course would be a good idea when I get time. I may actually end up looking into the area a fair bit my idea of a 'dream home' would be somewhere where I manage and live off the land. That's some way off at the moment but I'm keen to carry on in my back garden.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Lots of herbs fit the bill. Mint, lemon balm, some of the woody herbs like rosemary and sage, etc.

There are various perpetual spinachh type plants that I've yet to play with; I gather they're a sod if you change your mind.

Dandelion, daisy, chickweed, ground elder, and many other weeds are as good as ineradicable, and great eating.

And, of course, there are -always- snails, at least in my garden!

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44229
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Orach and fat hen both self seed readily

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Orach and fat hen both self seed readily


As does good king Henry, and bistort can be a toughy to get shot of. Common mallow can be a pleastant vegetable, and it's always springing up in a corner of our garden, and I only ever planted borage -once-, and it comes back somewhere else every year. Chervil too.

We also get tomato self seeding (probably my compost never gets hot enough to kill the seeds), along with cape gooseberries.

Sarah D



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 2584

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Sea kale is another true perennial vegetable, as is the runner bean in truth.; cardoon, tree tomatoes another couple.
Permaculture, as well as looking for perennial fruit and veg, is about planting in layers - from topfruit and nuts, underplanted by shrubs, then surface vegetables and roots on the bottom layer. Another feature is its great use of mulches, both on existing beds and to bring new ground into cultivation; then there is the zoning, which takes into account the number of times the plant has to be visited and its maintenance ie the fewer times you visit it eg an apple tree, the further from the house it is planted. For crops you would pick/harvest every day, they are planted in zone 1 which is the nearest to the house for frequent use. Forest gardening (vis. Robert A J de Hart) is another aspect worth looking into.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Herbs and wild plants will be some other excellent threads.

Sea Kale is a great idea, it has been on the list but forgotten a little. Bugs will be pleased. How long does it need to grow before cutting and can it be eaten unbalanced? Tree toms also tempting.

I find permaculture fascinating as it's not something I've come across until recently, but it seems to match many of my ideas. I will find out some more and I'd like to know does it also encompass animals?

Tahir, when is your permaculture ready to be published.

Sarah D



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 2584

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:


Sea Kale is a great idea, it has been on the list but forgotten a little. Bugs will be pleased. How long does it need to grow before cutting and can it be eaten unbalanced? Tree toms also tempting.

I find permaculture fascinating as it's not something I've come across until recently, but it seems to match many of my ideas. I will find out some more and I'd like to know does it also encompass animals?



Sea kale is easy to raise from seed (I've done it), but is extremely susceptible to slugs and snails (happened to mine ). Sow in March/April time in the ground, and leave there for a couple of seasons to build up strength (it is blanched for harvesting, so needs to build up its strength before the first cut), then planted into its permanent position.

What do you mean by "eaten unbalanced"?

Permaculture does/can encompass animals; again, the ones that need daily or more than daily attention going near the house (eg hens) and those which require less attention (eg sheep, cows) go out in the zones further from the house. Zones are numbered, with 1 being closest to the house. Some permaculturists classify the human as Zone Zero. The movement was started by Bill Mollison in Australia, and books written by him tend to be especially suited to their climate, etc, but there are still a lot of useful and inspiring ideas to be had from them. One of the British permaculture gurus is a man called Graham Bell; I think he is based in the Borders somewhere.

Tristan



Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 392
Location: North Gloucestershire
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 05 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Going to try perennial broccoli this year, available in lots of places, listed as 'nine star perennial'. Has anyone who's tried this got any hints?

Tristan

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