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Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way
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OtleyLad



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 7:31 am    Post subject: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way  Reply with quote    

Here's some solid evidence that renewables can do the heavy lifting.

Think of all the emissions not being produced as a result.

Makes you weep when you see the way Westminster still clings to fossil fuel energy production.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33932
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Some of our company cars are now electric. I'm playing in a Tesla tonight. The battery tech is coming on, hugely. Clearly, storage of power is a massive issue, but if the cars are now a decent size, with an acceptable range, they're becoming more mainstream. And that provides the funding to make your headline more routine than niche.

Eta: they're charged by solar.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

According to Wiki in 2012 the UK generated 12% by renewables.
Considering how much of that was 'Scottish' shows how far the rest of the country has to go IMHO.
Some of the poorest countries in the world are leaders when in comes to renewable power generation (through necessity no doubt).
Just scan down the far right column & see how many generate more than 2/3rds of their power from renewables.
It can be done.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way Reply with quote    

OtleyLad wrote:
Makes you weep when you see the way Westminster still clings to fossil fuel energy production.


It's not hard to understand if you give it a few moments thought. Yes Scotland is doing well (ignoring the environmental damage done by the renewable installations and infrastructure). But then take a quick look at Scotland, it has more scope for hydo than England, more scope for on shore wind, and it has 10% of the population but is only half the size.

It's also worth noting that the story is only about electricity, not total energy use. I gather more heating is provided from gas in Scotland for example, so England could increase the percentage of its electricity produced if all the properties that are heated via electricity were heated via gas.

john of wessex



Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2130

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

While I don't wish to criticise Scotland's achievement in this area, a small population & large land area it must be significantly easier to generate the bulk of your electricity from renewables than in England

OtleyLad



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
OtleyLad wrote:
Makes you weep when you see the way Westminster still clings to fossil fuel energy production.


It's not hard to understand if you give it a few moments thought. Yes Scotland is doing well (ignoring the environmental damage done by the renewable installations and infrastructure). But then take a quick look at Scotland, it has more scope for hydo than England, more scope for on shore wind, and it has 10% of the population but is only half the size.

It's also worth noting that the story is only about electricity, not total energy use. I gather more heating is provided from gas in Scotland for example, so England could increase the percentage of its electricity produced if all the properties that are heated via electricity were heated via gas.


Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I don't want to be cynical but I doubt they'll stop extracting and selling oil, in th UK or out of it. Nevertheless it's a posisitve story.

A while back there was interest in developing small scale community hydro plants. in Wales and the right bits of England. IIRC this got scuppered when the tax breaks got removed.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way Reply with quote    

OtleyLad wrote:
Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.


What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc.

Scotland get the same sort of grants as the UK doesn't it? The main difference I can see is Scotland doesn't devolve it's powers as much as England (somewhat ironic) so they force through approvals whereas English councils are more likely to listen to their voters and object. Personally I'd like to see more local powers not less.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
OtleyLad wrote:
Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.


What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc.

Scotland get the same sort of grants as the UK doesn't it? The main difference I can see is Scotland doesn't devolve it's powers as much as England (somewhat ironic) so they force through approvals whereas English councils are more likely to listen to their voters and object. Personally I'd like to see more local powers not less.
My bold again.
So the government aren't trying to strong arm fracking when Lancashire council have listened to their electorate & said no?
Please!!!

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way Reply with quote    

Tavascarow wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
OtleyLad wrote:
Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.


What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc.

Scotland get the same sort of grants as the UK doesn't it? The main difference I can see is Scotland doesn't devolve it's powers as much as England (somewhat ironic) so they force through approvals whereas English councils are more likely to listen to their voters and object. Personally I'd like to see more local powers not less.
My bold again.
So the government aren't trying to strong arm fracking when Lancashire council have listened to their electorate & said no?
Please!!!


It's gone to appeal, if England worked like Scotland it would have put more pressure on the council to approve right away. As I said, I'd rather the council had the power to decide but then that would also mean far fewer wind turbines as many are granted at appeal or the council grant then knowing they will loose the appeal.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 34729
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Behemoth wrote:
I don't want to be cynical but I doubt they'll stop extracting and selling oil, in th UK or out of it. Nevertheless it's a posisitve story.

A while back there was interest in developing small scale community hydro plants. in Wales and the right bits of England. IIRC this got scuppered when the tax breaks got removed.


iirc one in west yorks had to get finished last week or lose the incentive deal.

they got it online ,it will pay for itself in 15 yrs,has a 100 yr expected lifespan.

without the incentives 100 yrs to pay back which makes it unviable,but as it was 85 yrs of free electric and although that is a small unit i recon most of the rivers into west yorks are already equipped with plenty of water,gravity and in many places wiers and pond/leat combo to give a high pool for pre steam wheels can easily be adapted to new use.

a nuke or fossil facility gets incentives to create a slightly better set of terms and brings assorted"legacy issues usually over a 25 yr working life and beyond but sometimes the issues are rather urgent especially in the case of nukes.

OtleyLad



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
OtleyLad wrote:
Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.


What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc.


I'm sorry but thats just plain twaddle. Is 'saturated' a measure on some technical scale or just an emotive word from a headline? Please enlighten us.

BTW Scotland according to Wikipedia is 30,414 sq miles in area. I think we can lose 4000+ turbines in there somewhere

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15151
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way Reply with quote    

OtleyLad wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them...


I'm sorry but thats just plain twaddle. Is 'saturated' a measure on some technical scale or just an emotive word from a headline? Please enlighten us.

There is a practical limit to how closely spaced turbines can be sited, and I expect a regulatory one. If an area approaches that limit, then it can reasonably be described as saturated.
Nobody here said that the saturated areas were large...

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4145
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Not sure if this list is up to date,but gives a good idea of the number of turbines in and around the UK,one thing for sure,West Yorkshire is not saturated,surely they could get another 100 or so up Warfedale and Otley.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A7x9UnySJ3tWwXAAopR3Bwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBydWpobjZlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1450940435/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fList_of_onshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom/RK=0/RS=E_WGcrK.rcE7dADqSyMWz6rrBJ4-

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 15 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Tavascarow wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
OtleyLad wrote:
Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.


What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc.

Scotland get the same sort of grants as the UK doesn't it? The main difference I can see is Scotland doesn't devolve it's powers as much as England (somewhat ironic) so they force through approvals whereas English councils are more likely to listen to their voters and object. Personally I'd like to see more local powers not less.
My bold again.
So the government aren't trying to strong arm fracking when Lancashire council have listened to their electorate & said no?
Please!!!


It's gone to appeal, if England worked like Scotland it would have put more pressure on the council to approve right away. As I said, I'd rather the council had the power to decide but then that would also mean far fewer wind turbines as many are granted at appeal or the council grant then knowing they will loose the appeal.
& who's hearing the appeal?
An independent tribunal?
Or Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government Greg Clark?
No prizes for the right answer.
A man who has publicly stated his support for fracking.
Frack Free Lancashire: Lancashire councils response.
Quote:
Today, 17 December 2015, there was a meeting of the Full Council of LCC

We understand that the following motion was put to a vote

Agenda Part C Notices of Motion submitted under Procedural Standing Order 14. 2.1(a)

1. By County Councillor Steve Holgate:

Lancashire County Council has spent significant time and resources ensuring that the process of determining planning applications on Fracking in Lancashire has been open, transparent and well informed.

The Development Control Committee received evidence and opinion from organisations both in favour of and opposed to Fracking, as well as from local resident groups, local businesses and public health professionals.

Whilst national government is rightly entitled to take a view and determine national policy regarding energy, we believe that the determination of individual planning applications should remain with the County Council as it is best able to consider local planning issues.

The Secretary of State is a member of a cabinet with a clear policy in favour of Fracking and he has made statements in favour of Fracking.

It is therefore inappropriate for him to determine the planning appeals on Roseacre Wood and Preston New Road in Lancashire because of clear evidence of pre- determination.

Lancashire County Council requests that the Secretary of State takes no part in the final determination of the Preston New Road or Roseacre Wood appeal decisions.

Council instructs the chief executive of Lancashire County Council to write to the Prime Minister and Secretary of State informing them of the opinions of the County Council.

We believe that the motion was carried with

45 for
1 against
18 abstentions

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