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Falling into the Vista Trap
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vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 08 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I've been using Vista for nearly a year now and I have to be honest and say I think it's great. It's has much more flexibity than our Mac OS X both in terms of software and ease of us. It's now installed on most of our office and on one of our two home machines along with Office 2007 which is frankly superb compared to previous incarnations of Office.

For me Vista is much easier to use than Os X.

Linux I have problems with. I've never yet managed to get an install working I'm happy with but that's probably just me. For the novice user it can be a nightmare to install as it's still very geeky/techie. However, it does have a great deal of potential but needs to loose the fanatical element and get on with penetrating the market by making it easier to install and use. There aren't many Linux vendors who managed to make their web sites intelligble to the great unwashed, they are far too technical.

In much the same way Apple (users) need to lose the 'nose in the air' attitude and get on with opening the hardware side of things. Apple, and to a large extent their users, are stuck in their ivory 'style' tower way of thinking and won't let their software run on any PC - this is where Linux scores. Which is a shame as they'd have much more market penetration but less hardware profit. Unlike Microsoft, Apple haven't got too many fingers in the software pie to offset this.

If you combined the best of Linux and Mac you may well end up with a monopoly and anti-MS-monolopy brigade would go rather quiet quite quickly.


However, back to Vista.

In essence, for me at least:

* It's easy to use
* Very secure
* Extremely flexible
* Integrates well with it's environment
* Has a huge range of software available
* Needs some features to be more visible to the end user
* Could be faster in some areas
* Is cheap to own and run
* It isn't OpenSource but that that never bothered me, I still have choice if I want it.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 08 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

vegplot wrote:

However, back to Vista.

In essence, for me at least:

* It's easy to use
* Very secure
* Extremely flexible
* Integrates well with it's environment
* Has a huge range of software available
* Needs some features to be more visible to the end user
* Could be faster in some areas
* Is cheap to own and run
* It isn't OpenSource but that that never bothered me, I still have choice if I want it.


Amazing, learn something new every day!

When I'm really really rich, I'll buy one!

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 08 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

oldish chris wrote:
When I'm really really rich, I'll buy one!


Cynic. I get my licences through SPLA costs next to nothing. There's always OEM at around £50.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 08 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

vegplot wrote:
oldish chris wrote:
When I'm really really rich, I'll buy one!


Cynic. I get my licences through SPLA costs next to nothing. There's always OEM at around £50.


Does the £50 include the "huge range of software" that is available, e.g. Office, Photoshop and the virus checker? Then there is the old equipment that needs to be replaced because there are no drivers for Vista? (E.g. my Mustek 600 scanner - it got abandoned when Windows ME came out (thats how I got it.).)

I'm not a cynic, I'm a retired Systems Analyst - I've costed out systems before.

My current system (hardware) is made up from cast-offs, except for the monitor (Grimbo pressie). The software is free (bar the cost of the CD I burnt it on).

PS Who is "SPLA"?

PPS, legally, to get the OEM licence you need to buy at least a hard drive - been there, done that, got more than enough disks (not to mention the viruses).

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 08 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

oldish chris wrote:
vegplot wrote:
oldish chris wrote:
When I'm really really rich, I'll buy one!


Cynic. I get my licences through SPLA costs next to nothing. There's always OEM at around £50.


Does the £50 include the "huge range of software" that is available, e.g. Office, Photoshop and the virus checker? Then there is the old equipment that needs to be replaced because there are no drivers for Vista? (E.g. my Mustek 600 scanner - it got abandoned when Windows ME came out (thats how I got it.).)

I'm not a cynic, I'm a retired Systems Analyst - I've costed out systems before.

My current system (hardware) is made up from cast-offs, except for the monitor (Grimbo pressie). The software is free (bar the cost of the CD I burnt it on).

PS Who is "SPLA"?

PPS, legally, to get the OEM licence you need to buy at least a hard drive - been there, done that, got more than enough disks (not to mention the viruses).


Oooh that's a long list.

Okay. For photoshop try Paint.NET

Office - OpenOffice

Virus Checker- don't need it. Switch on FireWall and don't open attachments or visit dodgy web sites (tonge in cheek, sorry!). There are a number of free/OpenSource solutions available. Clam AV for one.

Obselete equipment. Don't use Vista, use Linux or XP, Win 2.1 if you have to. Vista isn't for every one.

Service Provider License Agreement (SPLA) means you can get MS software at very good rates. I fully understand that some think paying for software is abhorent and have not problem with that.

There's not need to pay RRP.

OEM: No, you can just buy it. No need to purchase hard drive.

99% of all virus/trojan horse is written specifically for Windows. If using old hardware then again Linux scrores well in this dept and if I was in this field I wouldn't consider XP let alone Vista. Anything less than XP is asking for trouble these days.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 08 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Vegplot - thank-you! I hadn't realised the extent to which MS prices can be reduced.

I've gone off "Open Office", its getting as over-complex as MS Office. Using Abiword now, still not designed with an idiot in mind

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 08 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

New!
From NEC:
https://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39292644,00.htm

JB



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7757
Location: 91° N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 08 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I was looking at getting some new machines recently and one of the things I noticed was that most suppliers now offer the option to upgrade from Vista to XP.

I also noticed on costing it out that not installing vista an sometimes be worth it simply because not needing to upgrade to a higher spec machine will save so much electricty that it's worth sticking with NT / XP / Abacus / anything but vista.

JB



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7757
Location: 91° N
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 08 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Oh and I also see that MS have brought forward the release date on their next windows version which some analysts are seeing as a tacit admission that vista is just so bad that they can't sell it.

chez



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35931
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 08 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

My MIL has just bought a new laptop that comes with Vista installed as standard. With all my previous machines, I have turned off the windows firewall and added Zonealarm. However, it doesn't run on Vista. Should I just trust the Vista firewall (not inclined to) or can someone recommend an effective free firewall that will run?

I am just about to install Ubuntu on it; but I think it might scare her, so I want to give her the windows option ...

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 08 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Chez wrote:
My MIL has just bought a new laptop that comes with Vista installed as standard. With all my previous machines, I have turned off the windows firewall and added Zonealarm. However, it doesn't run on Vista. Should I just trust the Vista firewall (not inclined to) or can someone recommend an effective free firewall that will run?

I am just about to install Ubuntu on it; but I think it might scare her, so I want to give her the windows option ...


The Vista firewall is actually very good if simplistic. It does it's job. Zonealarm will have more features so the choice is yours. I use a hardware firewall plus Vista's.

chez



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35931
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 08 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

She's going to be using it out and about in hotels - so I don't want to trust a hardware firewall under those circumstances.

I've read that the Vista firewall is pretty trusting about outgoing things - ie, it assumes that you don't have malware. Because she is very untechie and however much I try to drum in the old 'don't open stuff' mantra, occasionally I still get phonecalls saying "I've clicked on this file marked DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON and my entire desktop is now moving around in swirly patterns! What should I do?" I would like to make things as secure as possible for her.

I'm really disappointed that Zonealarm haven't caught up yet .

I've found something called PC Tools Firewall Plus that seems compatible - but I don't know how good it is.

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 08 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Some cynics might be amused at M$ top brass's experiences with Vista...
*link*



Ah Schadenfreude!

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27004
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 08 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Lets face it some people will report Vista runs well, but really only because they are running a machine where the hardware has been picked to run with Vista, or if they have got fairly lucky with their existing hardware.
In the real world it fairs a lot worse. You get poor performance and poor compatibility in exchange for a few dubious bells and whistles.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 08 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

jema wrote:
Lets face it some people will report Vista runs well, but really only because they are running a machine where the hardware has been picked to run with Vista, or if they have got fairly lucky with their existing hardware.
In the real world it fairs a lot worse. You get poor performance and poor compatibility in exchange for a few dubious bells and whistles.


Which is why Vista has a compatibility and performance tool you run before installing it. MS make no pretence it won't run well on a lot of machines because they don't fully met the requirements.

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