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What can I shoot with an air rifle?
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Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 09 6:24 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
I thought you needed your DSC1 to supply deer meat to people?

Justme


No. You need to 'demonstrate that you are competent to handle a carcass' which could mean just knowing how to do it. Some police forces try to insist on a DSC before permitting a stalking rifle, but they have no lawful authority to do so and can be challenged in court.

The people who make a fortune out of training courses - BASC principally, no longer an organisation of shooters but a self-perpetuating oligarchy of administrators (other than their legal/firearms dept who are mustard) - try to tell you that you need all sorts of courses, but you don't. They may be useful, and the safety aspects are good, but the marksmanship element is rotten.

When you can group 4 shots in a 2" circle at 100 yards, choose a proper backstop and know how to handle your rifle safely, you are ready for the field.

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8432
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 09 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ah I see.

Just been looking up the 06 regs with the 08 updates. It seems that if its to the end user you are ok but to a AGHE you need to be trained in inspection of the animal.

It says this about a trained person

Quote:
7.
TRAINED PERSON
Management of food risk in the wild game industry begins with the individual hunter. He/she should always be on the lookout for abnormal behaviour before killing and the scope for environmental contamination as well as any abnormalities found after killing.
A ‘trained person’ is someone who has sufficient knowledge of the pathology of wild game, and of the production and handling of wild game meat after hunting, to undertake an initial examination of wild game on the spot.
Trained persons need to be able to demonstrate to approved game handling establishment (AGHE) operators and enforcement officers that they have the knowledge and skill to carry out the initial examination required.

Where there is a requirement for a trained person to be present, it is still the responsibility of individual hunters to report abnormal behaviour before killing or suspected environmental contamination to the trained person;

Where individual hunters are supplying direct to local retailers or to final consumers under the primary producer exemption or the hunter exemption, if they are not able to draw on the specific expertise of a trained person, they should be particularly vigilant;

Where wild game carcases are being supplied to approved game handling establishments (AGHEs) or where certain retail exemptions are being claimed there is a specific requirement for a trained person;

If the trained person is unexpectedly unavailable, carcases can still be sent to the AGHE but, in the case of large wild game, certain viscera that a trained person would remove must accompany it (see below for details).


Then goes on to quantify what training is accepted

Quote:
TRAINING OPTIONS
A number of training options are available to meet the requirements of Regulation 853/2004:

Industry-based training and assessment
Experienced gamekeepers and/or a member of the National Gamekeepers’ Organisation (NGO) with experience can attend the courses run by the NGO. These courses introduce the requirements of Regulation 853/2004 and will provide practical solutions to help meet the needs of the legislation. At the end of the training there is an end-of-course assessment and, providing he required mark is achieved, an NGO certificate will be issued as proof of competence.
In Scotland contact the Scottish Gamekeepers Association or the British Association for Shooting and Conservation.

Vocationally Related Qualification (VRQ) Wild Game Meat Hygiene training and assessment
This nationally recognised qualification has been developed by Lantra (the Sector Skills Council). It is currently being offered via a number of different training organisations around the UK including BASC and many land-based training providers and agricultural colleges. The training introduces the legislation and prepares trainees for an VRQ assessment that is based on a multiple-choice question paper and leads to a certificate in Wild Game Meat Hygiene endorsed as large game, small game or both, according to the papers taken. Certification is offered via two national awarding bodies, Lantra Awards or the Royal Society for the Promotion of Health (RSPH).

Deer Management training and assessment
Those who wish to start deer-stalking are likely to undertake the DSC Level 1 Certificate. From December 2005 the requirements of Regulation 853/2004 became an integral part of the DSC Level 1, so achieving the DSC Level 1 certificate from that date provides proof that holders have the knowledge required by the legislation for large wild game.

1 October 2008 version
11

Other relevant professional training
Operators of AGHEs may also assume that doctors, veterinary surgeons, environmental health practitioners, meat inspectors and others who possess qualifications in pathology or meat hygiene have the necessary knowledge.


All from this pdf HERE

batman4435



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: 22 Reply with quote    

batman4435 wrote:
i have a air rifle i was wonderin can u shoot it in ur bacg garden with out be in done as my garden is big it 20m long and 10m wide thanks

batman4435



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: 22 Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
batman4435 wrote:
i have a air rifle i was wonderin can u shoot it in ur bacg garden with out be in done as my garden is big it 20m long and 10m wide thanks


As long as the air rifle is within legal limits (12ft.lbs muzzle energy) and the pellets do not travel outside your boundary then it's not a problem.

Make sure there is a suitable backstop and a supervising adult if youngsters are shooting then you shouldn't have a problem.

Be safe and a good neighbour.
t
hanks vegplot ..i have a smk19 22 air rifle i have no idia how to get the plastic site of the end of the barral as im thinking of getting a silencer but dont want to brake it of and i dont no what the ft.lb is im sure its under 12 do u no how or dose any one no as im not sure if u pull it of i tryed but didnt work and twisted it but im not sure thanks

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
Ah I see.

Just been looking up the 06 regs with the 08 updates. It seems that if its to the end user you are ok but to a AGHE you need to be trained in inspection of the animal.

It says this about a trained person

Quote:
7.
TRAINED PERSON


Trained persons need to be able to demonstrate to approved game handling establishment (AGHE) operators and enforcement officers that they have the knowledge and skill to carry out the initial examination required.



In other words, you don't need to produce a qualification but to demonstrate knowledge. If a qualification was compulsory it would say "Trained persons need to hold one of the following certificates..." The Invaders from Planet Peakedcap haven't quite turned shooting into yet another offshoot of the Bottom Inspection industry yet, though I am sure it's only a matter of time.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: 22 Reply with quote    

batman4435 wrote:
vegplot wrote:
batman4435 wrote:
i have a air rifle i was wonderin can u shoot it in ur bacg garden with out be in done as my garden is big it 20m long and 10m wide thanks


As long as the air rifle is within legal limits (12ft.lbs muzzle energy) and the pellets do not travel outside your boundary then it's not a problem.

Make sure there is a suitable backstop and a supervising adult if youngsters are shooting then you shouldn't have a problem.

Be safe and a good neighbour.
t
hanks vegplot ..i have a smk19 22 air rifle i have no idia how to get the plastic site of the end of the barral as im thinking of getting a silencer but dont want to brake it of and i dont no what the ft.lb is im sure its under 12 do u no how or dose any one no as im not sure if u pull it of i tryed but didnt work and twisted it but im not sure thanks


Take it to your local gun dealer. It's not worth damaging the gun for the sake of putting on a moderator.

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8432
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Its an SMK.

Its worth does not justify a gunsmiths charges.
Its a plinker.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
Its an SMK.

Its worth does not justify a gunsmiths charges.
Its a plinker.


Gunsmith? Gun dealer, get a decent air rifle that warrants a moderator.

batman4435



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

it may be a plinker but it ft is just under 12 ft.lb so i coulds go hunting if i wanted but not my thing lol shooting targets to train if i did go hunting n the silencer just to get a little les sound out of it as i no some one thats go the same smk 19 n he use one with a silencer n hunting he can kill a rabbit 100m away so thats not bad with a clean head shot but i just use mine for fun am only 19 lol but any one got any ideas on ma next air rifle under 250 ponds check out this link richardw http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.emmacustomrifles.co.uk/Pictures/Guns/IMG_20070203_0017_Mod%2520SMK%2520Z19.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.emmacustomrifles.co.uk/catAIRGUNS.htm&usg=__khY8nvt7V smk z19 just under the legal limet thats the one i have

Last edited by batman4435 on Fri Aug 07, 09 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8432
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Either

a, he cant tell how far 100m is
b, is power level is much higher than 12ftlb
c, he is bragging

My PCP will put pellet on pellet at35m at 100m I would be lucky to hit the target at all.

I have a prog that calcs that the terminal velocity / impact power at that distance is far to low. Plus you would need to be aiming over 80 inches high to allow for the drop (.22) or 54inches for .177 of average weight in both cases at full 12ftlb.

Oh & for safety remember that at the right angle a pellet can travel over 400m (but only has 0.8ftlb of energy left, most of which is from gravity pulling it back down)

With a springer it is the action that makes most of the sound.

Richard

batman4435



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
Either

a, he cant tell how far 100m is
b, is power level is much higher than 12ftlb
c, he is bragging

My PCP will put pellet on pellet at35m at 100m I would be lucky to hit the target at all.

I have a prog that calcs that the terminal velocity / impact power at that distance is far to low. Plus you would need to be aiming over 80 inches high to allow for the drop (.22) or 54inches for .177 of average weight in both cases at full 12ftlb.

Oh & for safety remember that at the right angle a pellet can travel over 400m (but only has 0.8ftlb of energy left, most of which is from gravity pulling it back down)

With a springer it is the action that makes most of the sound.

Richard
he must of bin bragin lol iv not even had mine 2 days but u got any i dear on ma next air rifle but not a co2 so is it work getin a silencer even just for a little bit of sound gone as the more sound i take of the better

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

A decent air rifle costs more than a decent .22LR, is this something you have considered. Obviously you can't plink with a .22LR in your back garden but if you rabbit control is your thing...

You'd be lucky to get accurate head shots even with a.22LR at 100m. It's fine out to round 75m but the bullet drops considerably after that and you'd need range accurately to be able to place head shots reliably. My CZ452 shoots fairly level between 25 and 50 metres but expect a 300mm drop at 100 metres and that's 10x more powerful than a non licenced air rifle.

batman4435



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
A decent air rifle costs more than a decent .22LR, is this something you have considered. Obviously you can't plink with a .22LR in your back garden but if you rabbit control is your thing...

You'd be lucky to get accurate head shots even with a.22LR at 100m. It's fine out to round 75m but the bullet drops considerably after that and you'd need range accurately to be able to place head shots reliably. My CZ452 shoots fairly level between 25 and 50 metres but expect a 300mm drop at 100 metres and that's 10x more powerful than a non licenced air rifle.
ye if i get a new one i will be use on ma mates dad farm cos my one can shoot 20m with a scope a shot a 1 pence and i was glad... the first time i missed i had kitchen work seface is it went into the second one n its not the cheap stuf lol solid chip bored well mine is the smk z19 http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.emmacustomrifles.co.uk/Pictures/Guns/IMG_20070203_0017_Mod%2520SMK%2520Z19.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.emmacustomrifles.co.uk/catAIRGUNS.htm&usg=__khY8nvt7V how far u thik thats good for

SheepShed



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 332
Location: In the middle of a Welsh forest
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

batman4435 wrote:
well mine is the smk z19 ... how far u thik thats good for

About as far as you can throw it
You can get a decent secondhand springer and scope for £200 - it's accuracy that matters, not power.
You'll need to practice on targets so you can reliably put shots into a 1" group at around 30 yards, from a variety of positions, and practice your fieldcraft so you can get near enough to the bunnies without spooking them.
At the end of the day it's not the gun that matters, it's the person shooting it.
By the way, is there any chance of you posting in the English language ? It would make your posts much easier to read and increase the chances of people continuing to offer helpful advice.

batman4435



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 09 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

SheepShed wrote:
batman4435 wrote:
well mine is the smk z19 ... how far u thik thats good for

About as far as you can throw it
You can get a decent secondhand springer and scope for £200 - it's accuracy that matters, not power.
You'll need to practice on targets so you can reliably put shots into a 1" group at around 30 yards, from a variety of positions, and practice your fieldcraft so you can get near enough to the bunnies without spooking them.
At the end of the day it's not the gun that matters, it's the person shooting it.
By the way, is there any chance of you posting in the English language ? It would make your posts much easier to read and increase the chances of people continuing to offer helpful advice.
it is English lol just short i did it like that cause i was in a hurry lol

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