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MBAs in prison
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iaf



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 5:13 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/oct/30/offenders-meet-victims-plan

No MBA, just give something back...

edit; http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales

some more facts about these hungry lads

Nature'sgrafter



Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 527
Location: Sanday , Orkney
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Isn't it amazing how enlightened some of the downsizer members are.
firstly they tar all prisoners with the same brush "they must be druggies" "scum" "burn them"
secondly they ignore the fact some people can change.
thirdly they ignore that all people are individuals and sometime circumstances lead to a life of crime.
fourthly they scream "what about the victims"
reading the responses I cant help but wonder if they would be the ones outside the prison gate waiting to watch them hang a child for stealing a potato.
We are supposed to be an enlightened society isn't the aim to help miscreants so that they can become a productive part of society not let our anger at what they have done rob us of our humanity.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34027
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I wasn't entirely serious when I suggested they'd make kindling. Honestly.

And you're the only one to mention drugs, and describe them as scum. Yep, some DS members are rubbish.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

iaf wrote:
I wonder how his victim (s) feel?
just out of curiosity, what is your definition of "victim"?

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4261
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nature'sgrafter wrote:
Isn't it amazing how enlightened some of the downsizer members are.
firstly they tar all prisoners with the same brush "they must be druggies" "scum" "burn them"
secondly they ignore the fact some people can change.
thirdly they ignore that all people are individuals and sometime circumstances lead to a life of crime.
fourthly they scream "what about the victims"
reading the responses I cant help but wonder if they would be the ones outside the prison gate waiting to watch them hang a child for stealing a potato.
We are supposed to be an enlightened society isn't the aim to help miscreants so that they can become a productive part of society not let our anger at what they have done rob us of our humanity.



To be Fair,some on this forum are More enlightened than other`s when it come`s to offender`s,there is one that has worked inside a prison,and there is another that works with offenders and victim`s,

Me,i`d have them on Dartmoor in the quarry with a 14 pounder.

iaf



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nature'sgrafter wrote:
Isn't it amazing how enlightened some of the downsizer members are.
firstly they tar all prisoners with the same brush "they must be druggies" "scum" "burn them"
secondly they ignore the fact some people can change.
thirdly they ignore that all people are individuals and sometime circumstances lead to a life of crime.
fourthly they scream "what about the victims"
reading the responses I cant help but wonder if they would be the ones outside the prison gate waiting to watch them hang a child for stealing a potato.
We are supposed to be an enlightened society isn't the aim to help miscreants so that they can become a productive part of society not let our anger at what they have done rob us of our humanity.


Who said this then? Don't nullify individual responsibility-there are few circumstances that take that away. Enlightened, you might be surprised.


I should read this before you condemn the world for expecting justice (unless you don't believe in it?); http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/publications/inspectorate-reports/hmipris/thematic-reports-and-research-publications/remand-thematic.pdf

I know the author, he is quite a thorough man.

Chris, I would start with people who have been abused, raped, robbed, bereaved, I might be wrong?

iaf



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
Nature'sgrafter wrote:
Isn't it amazing how enlightened some of the downsizer members are.
firstly they tar all prisoners with the same brush "they must be druggies" "scum" "burn them"
secondly they ignore the fact some people can change.
thirdly they ignore that all people are individuals and sometime circumstances lead to a life of crime.
fourthly they scream "what about the victims"
reading the responses I cant help but wonder if they would be the ones outside the prison gate waiting to watch them hang a child for stealing a potato.
We are supposed to be an enlightened society isn't the aim to help miscreants so that they can become a productive part of society not let our anger at what they have done rob us of our humanity.



To be Fair,some on this forum are More enlightened than other`s when it come`s to offender`s,there is one that has worked inside a prison,and there is another that works with offenders and victim`s,

Me,i`d have them on Dartmoor in the quarry with a 14 pounder.


John, rumour is, Dartmoor is closing, supermax to be built Wrexham way (I think)...

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4261
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

iaf wrote:
Ty Gwyn wrote:
Nature'sgrafter wrote:
Isn't it amazing how enlightened some of the downsizer members are.
firstly they tar all prisoners with the same brush "they must be druggies" "scum" "burn them"
secondly they ignore the fact some people can change.
thirdly they ignore that all people are individuals and sometime circumstances lead to a life of crime.
fourthly they scream "what about the victims"
reading the responses I cant help but wonder if they would be the ones outside the prison gate waiting to watch them hang a child for stealing a potato.
We are supposed to be an enlightened society isn't the aim to help miscreants so that they can become a productive part of society not let our anger at what they have done rob us of our humanity.



To be Fair,some on this forum are More enlightened than other`s when it come`s to offender`s,there is one that has worked inside a prison,and there is another that works with offenders and victim`s,

Me,i`d have them on Dartmoor in the quarry with a 14 pounder.


John, rumour is, Dartmoor is closing, supermax to be built Wrexham way (I think)...


Maybe that`s why the Solar Panel factory is closing in Wrecsam,
Fear of collateral damage,lol

iaf



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
iaf wrote:
Ty Gwyn wrote:
Nature'sgrafter wrote:
Isn't it amazing how enlightened some of the downsizer members are.
firstly they tar all prisoners with the same brush "they must be druggies" "scum" "burn them"
secondly they ignore the fact some people can change.
thirdly they ignore that all people are individuals and sometime circumstances lead to a life of crime.
fourthly they scream "what about the victims"
reading the responses I cant help but wonder if they would be the ones outside the prison gate waiting to watch them hang a child for stealing a potato.
We are supposed to be an enlightened society isn't the aim to help miscreants so that they can become a productive part of society not let our anger at what they have done rob us of our humanity.



To be Fair,some on this forum are More enlightened than other`s when it come`s to offender`s,there is one that has worked inside a prison,and there is another that works with offenders and victim`s,

Me,i`d have them on Dartmoor in the quarry with a 14 pounder.


John, rumour is, Dartmoor is closing, supermax to be built Wrexham way (I think)...


Maybe that`s why the Solar Panel factory is closing in Wrecsam,
Fear of collateral damage,lol


From what I can gather, it should be good for the local economy. Budget withh be 20-30m at a guess, maybe more

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34027
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

And the residents will be closer their families.

Nature'sgrafter



Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 527
Location: Sanday , Orkney
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Iaf I am getting a sense of personal history in your response by the level of anger in your wording and the sarcasm around "Enlightened, you might be surprised. " it seems to cloud your view.
individual responsibility is a issue that has many aspects yes we are all responsible for our actions however we are only human and can be put in a situation where we make mistakes. Yes some crimes are unforgivable but this is a debate about prisoners in general not the worst case scenarios.
And Question are you after justice or vengeance their is a fine line between the two.

Last edited by Nature'sgrafter on Tue Dec 17, 13 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

Jamanda
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 34918
Location: Devon
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

What about Princetown's local economy?

iaf



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nick wrote:
And the residents will be closer their families.


Forgive me Nick, I don't understand what you mean?

iaf



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Jamanda wrote:
What about Princetown's local economy?


devastated I expect-I hope you write to the Prison's Minister to complain about the effects of their restructuring policy?

Nature-Iaf I am getting a sense of personal history in your response by the level of anger in your wording and the sarcasm around "Enlightened, you might be surprised. " it seems to cloud your view.
individual responsibility is a issue that has many aspects yes we are all responsible for our actions however we are only human and can be put in a situation where we make mistakes. Yes some crimes are unforgivable but this is a debate about prisoners in general not the worst case scenarios.

Nice try at deflection, not really a sensible part of a good discussion-I haven't personalised it please don't attempt to. You need to consider how what you say appears.

Last edited by iaf on Tue Dec 17, 13 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

Jamanda
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 34918
Location: Devon
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 13 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Doubt they'd take much notice.

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