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real_eco
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 Posted: Sat Jul 16, 05 4:30 pm Post subject: you guys all suck |
 
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this whole site is an example of pure, unadulterated hypocrisy... you talk about "an ethical approach to consumption"...? with what purpose? everyone should continue being a mindless, hoggish consumer, as long as they do it DIY-style?? consumption is the PROBLEM, morons. you talk about composting and recycling as if you actually care about sustainable living... and then i see articles about freshwater fishing and making bacon...??
there's a saying in the eco community-- "there's no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist." meat is incredibly wasteful-- animals consume, on average, ten pounds of feed for every one pound of meat they provide (for some animals the ration is even worse-- for cows it's 16:1). this means that meat-eaters are reducing their own food supply by 90%. and that's ethical and sustainable?? and let's not forget that the practice of eating animals is responsible for more environmental degradation than any other human activity, including the burning of fossil fuels (all that urine and feces has to go somewhere). if you people are going to preach sustainability and ethics, you need to drop the disgusting hypocrisy and get rid of the pig-butchering tips. the only TRULY sustainable society will be an entirely plant-based one.
also, fooling youself into thinking you're eco-conscious just because you make your own jam is pathetic. going lo-tech and DIY is no substitute whatsoever for making the hard, unselfish choices that can truly benefit future generations. when you want a new oak desk for your study, are you going to feel good about yourself because you went out and chopped down the tree yourself, with an axe instead of a chainsaw? the tree is still gone either way, and you've got one more worthless possession that you don't need weighing you down.
the real "ethical approach" isn't to do it yourself-- it's to do without. a truly ethical and sustainable approach to life requires making choices based not on your own selfish desires, but on what's best for all life on earth. you don't get eco points for killing your own pigs and making your own bacon-- you get them for completely giving up bacon, along with all the other unhealthy garbage that you don't really NEED.
but i guess that's a little too tough for fake environmentalists like you. i think the real reason you want to be self-sufficient is because you think it might save you a few pennies. you're not motivated by ethics at all-- you're just a bunch of cheapskates. |
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Blue Sky
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7658
Location: France
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Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
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nettie
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 5888
Location: Suffolk
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 05 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have to say that, while your comments are perfectly valid, real eco, the same as anyone else's here, the way you put them across is unlikely to win you any support.
If this site, in whatever small way, moves some people to question what is the considered norm for the vast majority of the population and act on it, then it's done a fantastic job so far. Rome wasn't built in a day, and, be realistic, the world isn't going to go anywhere near the way you want it to overnight. Especially not when you behave so rudely to complete strangers without knowing anything about them. There's room for all kinds of people with very differing viewpoints but we manage to keep it civilised and respectful. I'm sure if you could do the same there will be some good discussions to come. |
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sean
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42207
Location: North Devon
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jema
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28111
Location: escaped from Swindon
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pink bouncy
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 174
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Blue Sky
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7658
Location: France
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Blue Sky
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7658
Location: France
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Bugs
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744
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Viking_Chick
Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 05 8:42 am Post subject: |
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I'm a newbie here but would like to add a bit to what has already been said.
Changing lifestyles does not happen overnight. If you believe in something, great, and if you can live up to the ideals that come with that belief, even better. But we are all just human at the end of the day, none of us perfect. Not even you real_eco with your presumably partly plastic computer.
Everyone here is doing what they do for their own reasons - some may claim to be environmentalists, some are doing it for other ethical reasons - such as an abhorrance of factory farming or a desire to reduce costs or a feeling that they want to get back to an older style of living. Whatever their reasons, it is *their* reasons and the rest of the site is to support the baby steps that each individual here is making towards their own, individual, goals.
And going back to my opening statement, life changes don't and for the vast majority of people, cannot happen overnight. None of us knows everything, but we are all making our way slowly, changing what we do bit by bit to make the changes we can in our own way.
It's not good enough for you, but its good enough for us. Personally I think people should be encouraged to do what they can as they can. Trying to make people feel bad about not doing enough soon enough is far more likely to make them give up on the goals that they have rather than encourage them to do more.
I prefer the downsizer.net approach. Friendly support in a way that does make you think about doing things that you never have before.
It works for me. |
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sean
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42207
Location: North Devon
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pink bouncy
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 174
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jema
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28111
Location: escaped from Swindon
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 05 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Viking_Chick wrote: |
I'm a newbie here but would like to add a bit to what has already been said.
Changing lifestyles does not happen overnight. If you believe in something, great, and if you can live up to the ideals that come with that belief, even better. But we are all just human at the end of the day, none of us perfect. Not even you real_eco with your presumably partly plastic computer.
Everyone here is doing what they do for their own reasons - some may claim to be environmentalists, some are doing it for other ethical reasons - such as an abhorrance of factory farming or a desire to reduce costs or a feeling that they want to get back to an older style of living. Whatever their reasons, it is *their* reasons and the rest of the site is to support the baby steps that each individual here is making towards their own, individual, goals.
And going back to my opening statement, life changes don't and for the vast majority of people, cannot happen overnight. None of us knows everything, but we are all making our way slowly, changing what we do bit by bit to make the changes we can in our own way.
It's not good enough for you, but its good enough for us. Personally I think people should be encouraged to do what they can as they can. Trying to make people feel bad about not doing enough soon enough is far more likely to make them give up on the goals that they have rather than encourage them to do more.
I prefer the downsizer.net approach. Friendly support in a way that does make you think about doing things that you never have before.
It works for me. |
And for the rest of us  Whilst our guest troll has been more abrasive than most, this topic has cropped up time and time again on downsizer, in one guise or another. A certain type of person has some overriding need to feel superior to the rest of us 
Each time is has cropped up, we are encouraged by comments like yours that we have succeeded on the whole in one of our original objectives, of getting away from that sort of piousness, and recognise that we are all doing our best in our own ways, and people will do more with encouragement than by being confronted with a set a smug idiots who think they know it all. |
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nettie
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 5888
Location: Suffolk
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