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Hunting Season Starts in the USA
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Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 10 3:31 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

matt_hooks wrote:
There's nothing specific in any of the game acts that prevent muzzle loaders being used, as long as they meet the energy/velocity/calibre/mass requirements of the various acts.


I think it would be lawful to use obsolete firearms, just as it would be legal to perform dental surgery without anaesthetic and using a gimlet. Why anyone would choose to do so when there is a better alternative more readily to hand is another matter entirely.

matt_hooks



Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 312
Location: Lambourn(ish) Berkshire
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 10 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Brownbear wrote:
matt_hooks wrote:
There's nothing specific in any of the game acts that prevent muzzle loaders being used, as long as they meet the energy/velocity/calibre/mass requirements of the various acts.


I think it would be lawful to use obsolete firearms, just as it would be legal to perform dental surgery without anaesthetic and using a gimlet. Why anyone would choose to do so when there is a better alternative more readily to hand is another matter entirely.


Agreed BB, which is why I said it's unlikely that you would get a condition on the FAC for use on game.

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 10 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I was thinking more of why Americans - particularly given their national enthusiasm for modernity and new inventions - would cling to the use of such instruments. Maybe there's some sort of Grizzly Adams/Davy Crockett thing going on.

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2130
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 10 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I don't hunt, so cannot speak from personal experience. Issue with rifle is, I believe, the carry distance of bullet compared to shotgun shell. Most deer hunting in NJ is from tree stand so hunter is aiming downward. But accidents do happen.

Black powder - the concept of traditional techniques. If you look at the NY Times pictures there's a fellow who not only made darts for an atlatl, he apparently chipped flint points for the darts. Now that's traditional!

People are interested in reenactment in different periods - Revolutionary War, the War Between the States.

If DS is the encouragement of smallholding, raising our own food, making our own preserves and pickles, spinning and weaving - why should hunters only use the most modern techniques? What's more enjoyable - fly fishing or going out with a powerful boat, fish-finding sonar, and other more "advanced" techniques?

Chacun a son gout.

matt_hooks



Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 312
Location: Lambourn(ish) Berkshire
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 10 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I guess it's down to wanting to ensure the fastest, most humane death possible for the prey animal Jam Lady.

As a hunter, my goals, in order of importance, are firstly safety for me and other people, secondly the quickest, most humane possible death and third meat quality. I would not consider using an older, more outdated method if that increased the risk of injuring the animal, or increased the amount of time to death and hence caused the animal to suffer. I want to use the best tools at my disposal to ensure the animal suffers as little as possible.

A black powder rifle is not likely to be as accurate at range as a modern rifle, and a bow and arrow is certainly likely to cause the animal to suffer, even if the shot is well placed!

It's horses for courses, but for me the method is less important in the enjoyment than the hunt itself.

As far as fishing goes, the fish doesn't suffer any more if you catch it on a fly or with a modern net and fish finding sonar, so the comparison doesn't really stand!

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2130
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 10 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

That's it, matt_hooks. It's sneaking up on a deer to get close enough for a safe, quick kill. The man who still-hunts (shotgun) on our property stays out there until I think he must have frozen solid, waiting until a deer is close enough for a clean kill. He's here again, again, again, and again until things are right for a good, clean kill.

A rifle might even encourage someone to take a long shot - after all, it's a rifle - where someone using black powder or bow should of necessity understand the limits of his weapon.

There are many vehement arguments pro and con about gun vs hunting bow. If you've ever seen a compound hunting bow and the quarrels used, it sure looks to me a quickly lethal method - when used by someone who understands what he's doing.

Surely the same is applicable to a rifle?

Around here at this time of year I see life-size plastic deer set up in people's backyards (with a back stop) as they sharpen their bow technique in advance of opening day.

As with anything - it is the person using the - gun, bow, camera, knitting needles - that is responsible for a great, good, mediocre, or poor outcome.

BTW, local hunters all tell me that they find wild turkey a wilier, more challenging critter to hunt than white-tail deer.

matt_hooks



Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 312
Location: Lambourn(ish) Berkshire
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 10 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I have used all sorts of bows, crossbows, modern compound and recurve bows right through to the oldest types of bow, longbows and some pretty nifty composite horn bows. Yes, they are very powerful, and deadly accurate in the right hands, but they just don't have the energy to impart that a modern bullet does.

A modern bullet kills quickly and painlessly by causing massive tissue trauma along the track it takes through the tissue. An arrow or bolt from a bow, on the other hand, does not impart as much energy. The bullet causes massive blood loss and rapid unconsciousness and death, whereas a bow shot, even a well placed one, is likely to lead to slow blood loss and a slow death.

sgt.colon



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 6502
Location: Just south of north.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 10 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Slim wrote:
Wouldn't really feel comfortable taking a bear myself.


Just going back to a bit earlier in the thread. What do they do with the bears they kill?

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 10 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

sgt.colon wrote:
What do they do with the bears they kill?


If they're good fellows they eat them; if they're turds they just nail the head to their living room wall and bin the rest.

sgt.colon



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 6502
Location: Just south of north.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 10 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Brownbear wrote:
sgt.colon wrote:
What do they do with the bears they kill?


If they're good fellows they eat them; if they're turds they just nail the head to their living room wall and bin the rest.


Wow! I didn't even know people ate bear. Wouldn't be for me but at least they are not just killing them for killings sake.

Katieowl



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 4317
Location: West Wales
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 10 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Slim wrote:
Wouldn't really feel comfortable taking a bear myself.


What you need is a Zucchini...

http://forum.downsizer.net/about55961.html&highlight=

Kate

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 5411
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 10 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Brownbear wrote:
sgt.colon wrote:
What do they do with the bears they kill?


If they're good fellows they eat them; if they're turds they just nail the head to their living room wall and bin the rest.


Exactly. I've had bear stew - robust & spicy

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35660
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 10 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

when i was in n.j. i was offered some firearms that would have most unsuitable for bear ,maybe the ouzi would have worked at close range but the meat would have been messy

Bodger



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13510

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 10 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

You'll find that hunting in the US is extremely well policed. The American hunting fraternity take their hunting extremely seriously.
Muzzle loading rifles over in the states are extremely acurate and effective and are not the Muzzle loaders of the Napoleonic Wars. They are modern and extremely effective bits of kit.
I wont go into the fors and againsts of bow hunting, because its been done to death time and time again.

It doesn't seem like three years ago but this was one of the most memorable days of my life.

http://forum.downsizer.net/about27483.html&highlight=deer

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35660
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 10 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

im puzzled by squirel season ,in the uk the grey (yankie)ones are classed as pest
they are tastiest after the hazelnut season but fair game all year

are they not a problem in the land of their ancestors ?

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