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Giving permission to shoot deer
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cassy



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1047
Location: South West Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:01 pm    Post subject: Giving permission to shoot deer Reply with quote
    

I've been asked if I will allow deer to be shot on my land. I've not met the person in question yet so what questions should I be asking them, please?

I mainly need to know that it will be humanely and safely done. Will membership of the BASC or the local gun club, be indicative of a certain standard or not? Do people usually take up references? Would it be normal to examine his gun license?

I also don't know what's expected of me responsibility and access wise. I've read the BASC permission doc but how long and how frequently should I allow access (realistically)?

This has come about as neighbours are concerned about 3 red deer which appear to have escaped from a local deer farm. If they are on my land, would I be expected to pay to have them shot or would the bloke take the venison as payment? I know people usually pay for shooting rights but I guess this is different as there are only 3 animals, it's more like pest control. What is the deal normally? Gralloching, do I have to dispose of the entrails or are they left for wildlife?

And finally (sorry for all the questions), should I and my neighbours be putting together a deer management plan or is that only done by large estates? The area they seem to be using is around 50 acres. I don't know how many deer are too many, in a given area. I'm willing to tolerate some damage in the name of biodiversity but the neighbours are less keen as the deer are escapees and pretty unafraid of people. What would be the best management of this group which seem to be one hind and two younger animals? They're the only red deer I've seen here and although we've had roe damage to the trees in the past, there don't seem to be that many wild deer in this exact area.

If the potential hunter was someone I knew, I would trust him to manage the deer in a sustainable manner but having not met him yet, I'd like to be better informed.

Thank you.

windyridge



Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Posts: 2732
Location: Up the garden from Henry
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

If they are escapees do they still technicaly belong to the owner of the deer farm? Should you and your neighbours contact them first?

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Firstly, you don't have to let anyone onto your land unless you are 100% happy about them. You can harbour all the deer you want and it's entirely up to you, so don't let anyone pressure you into anything.

As far as a deer management plan goes, most small landowners either welcome them or take the odd one for food as and when. If you've been planting saplings I suggest a zero-tolerance policy as they will lay them waste in no time.

There is no guarantee of acceptable stalkers - there is something called the DSC or Deer Stalking Certificate, which is a nice little earner for the BASC, is used as an arse-covering exercise by police firearms depts, but is in my opinion not worth the paper it is printed on. In fact, if anyone was bragging of having a DSC I would regard it as a sign of extreme inexperience at best. Membership of BASC, the Countryside Alliance or the National Gamekeeper's Organisation means only that the person has paid their subs, but it does give them £10m public liability insurance, so you should demand proof that they have such cover.

You should not pay for someone to shoot deer on your land unless by a professional deer manager as part of a long-term plan. This is in effect a small cull which treats the deer as a pest, and is hardly an exacting job in so small an area. I'd suggest that you offer to go halves on the venison with the stalker. Deer stalking is a resource so don't go giving it away.

As far as determining who you wish to let on your land with a rifle, there are a fair few idiots out there as well as a lot of good people, so I suggest you talk to the potential stalker - making it very clear in advance that you are by no means decided and that it is up to him to get you to agree to both the cull and to him doing it - and see what you think of him. Ask for proof of insurance, ask to see his Firearms Certificate (FAC). Ask for references from other landowners for whom he has stalked.

cassy



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1047
Location: South West Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

windyridge wrote:
If they are escapees do they still technicaly belong to the owner of the deer farm? Should you and your neighbours contact them first?


I'm basing the assumption on the fact that they don't seem scared of people. Our neighbour has lived in the areas a lot longer than us and is basing it on the fact that the ex-owners of the deer farm had a bad reputation for fence up-keep.

I could be wrong, but I imagine the response from the deer farm would be "Prove it".

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

windyridge wrote:
If they are escapees do they still technicaly belong to the owner of the deer farm?


No. Deer are classed as wild animals and belong to the landowner on whose land they are at any one time.

misty07



Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 2223
Location: swindon wiltshire
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

3 deer on 50 acres aint alot is it? what sex are they? could you not just leave them be for a few seasons let them maybe find a stag breed then have more quarry to shoot and part of deal of shooting on your land to keep you in supplie of venison

windyridge



Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Posts: 2732
Location: Up the garden from Henry
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I am afraid that I am firmly in the dont shoot camp Wraps flameproof flak jacket tightly round me

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

misty07 wrote:
3 deer on 50 acres aint alot is it?


Yes, it is, if they're reds the damage they do to young woodland is quite remarkable.

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

windyridge wrote:
I am afraid that I am firmly in the dont shoot camp. Wraps flameproof flak jacket tightly round me:D


That is the right of the landowner. Unless harbouring a reservoir of diseased or destructive animals, or deliberately attracting animals to the area where they affect other landowners, then that right should be respected.

There are some trigger-happy knobs out there who would lay waste the entire land if left to it. Species management is about selective killing, not the bringing-about of a holocaust.

windyridge



Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Posts: 2732
Location: Up the garden from Henry
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

*withdraws from discussion* I am a big softee

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

windyridge wrote:
*withdraws from discussion* I am a big softee


Your point of view is as good as the next fellow's. If you want deer on your land, then have deer on your land.

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

One more thing to the OP - agree on cull numbers, not access times. Deer behaviour varies so it may take a while and a few visits for the stalker to get the gen on where and when to shoot.

If you give permission to take two deer, you have the first carcass, let the stalker take the second (to make sure he comes back - people can be keener to get permission than to actually do the stalking), access then ends until further permission from you is given.

windyridge



Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Posts: 2732
Location: Up the garden from Henry
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Brownbear wrote:
windyridge wrote:
*withdraws from discussion* I am a big softee


Your point of view is as good as the next fellow's. If you want deer on your land, then have deer on your land.



cassy



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1047
Location: South West Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Thanks Brownbear, that's a lot of helpful advice.

It's given me a better idea now of what to expect when I speak to him and how to judge what he says.

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 11 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

cassy wrote:
Thanks Brownbear, that's a lot of helpful advice.

It's given me a better idea now of what to expect when I speak to him and how to judge what he says.


You're welcome.

If you don't like the cut of his jib but still want the cull done, you'll soon find another to do it. Remember it's your land and your deer, and your ears that bullets would be flying around if the fellow is a yahoo.

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