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Why do we expect our rubbish to be collected?
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robkb



Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 4205
Location: SE London
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:33 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

As an aside, the amount of waste some people generate astounds me. Take the guy I work with - he uses a new shrink-wrapped plastic spoon for every single cup of tea or coffee he drinks, even though we have a drawer full of teaspoons in the kitchen. He prints everything and then puts the prints in the bin, even though we have two paper recycling bins within five yards of his desk, and a few moments ago he got a biscuit from the communal biscuit tin and actually wrapped it up in paper towel to walk the couple of feet back to his desk! And then threw the paper towel in the bin!! Aaargghhhh

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

robkb wrote:
cab wrote:
If we were all restricted to what we could actually carry, would we not be buying a lot less rubbish?


Probably not, we'd just go shopping more often .

We're making a concerted effort to only buy what we need at the moment, but a week's shopping for four people is still too much to carry.


Rather depends how you carry it, I think. I'll bet I could feed four people for a week from a cycle trailer and a rucksack, for example. But then I feel each extra increase in weight, I'm made aware of how much I'm carrying because I'm using my own energy.

Mrs R



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:

Why would changing waste handling mean that offenders get more of a kicking?

But I've seen just how completely awful people not dealing with their waste is, and I've seen that at present local authorities and the police are light years away from taking that seriously.


Why would it not mean they would? We've put effort into changing things to make things better, so why wouldn't we address this side of it too? I don't get the logic.

I've seen how awful people not dealing with rubbish is. I've experienced a manchester apartment block backing up with rubbish in July when the council changed their rota and instead of doing more collections in the changeover, did less, and refused to deal with the issue. If people were responsible for taking their own rubbish away, as they are for doing their washing up, washing their laundry, etc, that would not have arisen at all.

Bernie66



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Why do we not hammer supermarkeys and the like for the amount of excess packaging they use? Packaging of the non "Needed" should be taxed to buggery.

Or utilise carrot rather than stick approach.

Can't think how exactly right now but I firmly believe reuse rather than disposeof/recycle should be the first port of call.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Dances With Cows wrote:


Why would it not mean they would?


Largely because the amount of change needed to get there is so massive. At present, you can be pretty sure that you'll get away with it. The police aren't responsible, local authorities don't care, and demonstrating that such refuse poses a public health problem is very hard indeed. Been there, done that, and seen just how entirely useless 'authorities' are at helping.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Bernie66 wrote:
Or utilise carrot rather than stick approach.


I'd settle for not being beaten with a stick for not going by car and buying masses of carp. So, for example, cheap offers only if I buy multipacks that cannot feasibly be carried without a vehicle. Access to many shops by bike or foot being made so unpleasant by crossings being inaccessible/miles away.

For the most part this is why I avoid supermarkets; I want to buy something and carry it home myself with as little excess packaging as possible. It takes up precious room even in my cavernous ruck sack/pannier bags. I want access by bike to be pleasant. I want to chain up the wheels and walk between places without running into zombie consumers.

Bernie66



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
Bernie66 wrote:
Or utilise carrot rather than stick approach.


I'd settle for not being beaten with a stick for not going by car and buying masses of carp. So, for example, cheap offers only if I buy multipacks that cannot feasibly be carried without a vehicle. Access to many shops by bike or foot being made so unpleasant by crossings being inaccessible/miles away.

For the most part this is why I avoid supermarkets; I want to buy something and carry it home myself with as little excess packaging as possible. It takes up precious room even in my cavernous ruck sack/pannier bags. I want access by bike to be pleasant. I want to chain up the wheels and walk between places without running into zombie consumers.


What you'd settle for is irrelevent. You hardly need a nudge to improve your recycling agenda. I'm focussing on the broader society who are a smidge less caring about our planet. (i am not being disrespectful here, I just feel that if everyone was of your thinking I would have less to worry about on the refuse front)

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Bernie66 wrote:

What you'd settle for is irrelevent. You hardly need a nudge to improve your recycling agenda. I'm focussing on the broader society who are a smidge less caring about our planet. (i am not being disrespectful here, I just feel that if everyone was of your thinking I would have less to worry about on the refuse front)


Believe me, I'm focussed on the same thing. We're actively discouraging people from acting the way you and I would like by making that as hard and unpleasant as it frequently is; its not just about incentives to do better, we need also to remove many of the disincentives that are stopping people living better lives.

Bernie66



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Tax packaging more. or better still ban some packaging types

Mrs R



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
Dances With Cows wrote:


Why would it not mean they would?


Largely because the amount of change needed to get there is so massive. At present, you can be pretty sure that you'll get away with it. The police aren't responsible, local authorities don't care, and demonstrating that such refuse poses a public health problem is very hard indeed. Been there, done that, and seen just how entirely useless 'authorities' are at helping.


right, but the amount of change needed to implement this scheme woud be 'massive' - if we're going that far in this theoretical situation, why would we not implement a corresponding 'stick' for nobbers, and also hammer the supermarkets about producing the excess packaging etc. in for a penny, in for a pound. For me, that's all part of the new scheme. It'd be senseless to simply switch off bin lorries and say 'right, you're on your own'.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Dances With Cows wrote:

right, but the amount of change needed to implement this scheme woud be 'massive' - if we're going that far in this theoretical situation, why would we not implement a corresponding 'stick' for nobbers, and also hammer the supermarkets about producing the excess packaging etc. in for a penny, in for a pound. For me, that's all part of the new scheme. It'd be senseless to simply switch off bin lorries and say 'right, you're on your own'.


At lunchtime I was talking to a chap in a charity shop (which shall remain nameless). He's doing community service, he had something like 200 hours to do originally, he's just been given another 200 hours 'for doing it again' (what it was shall remain unsaid; it wasn't nice). He's sure he'll get that to do at the same charity shop, so he's okay with it.

We're not looking at changing culture around waste to make your idea work. We're looking at changing the entire culture of crime and punishment. Massive is under-stating it.

Mrs R



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:

We're not looking at changing culture around waste to make your idea work. We're looking at changing the entire culture of crime and punishment. Massive is under-stating it.


I don't think so, we haven't established what the exact methods would be!

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Dances With Cows wrote:
cab wrote:

We're not looking at changing culture around waste to make your idea work. We're looking at changing the entire culture of crime and punishment. Massive is under-stating it.


I don't think so, we haven't established what the exact methods would be!


Not really. At present you can basically do what you like with rubbish and while, in theory, if you fly tip it, let it pile up, burn it, or whatever, you might be in trouble. In practice no one in any kind of authority cares. At all. Even a bit. So the result is that individuals get away with being dreadful. And unfortunately thats also true for lots of other petty crime like nicking a few things from shops, speeding,etc. To change things such that there are real ways of people dealing with waste in a future where we're meant to get rid of our own... Its unrealistic. Sorry. I don't see us getting hard on any of those other criminal activities either.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Bernie66 wrote:
Tax packaging more. or better still ban some packaging types


That isn't enough on its own. Its not a bad idea, like.

Personally I'd like to see things like bottles and bags have value. Why the heck are we melting down bottles and jars to make more bottles and jars? Put a deposit on them and re-use them.

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
Its not a bad idea, like.


You've gorn all Geordie again.
A.

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