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Libyan crisis, rising oil price, and over-due realism
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Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4340
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:08 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

I can imagine myself cycling 8mls to the Abattoir with a few pigs in a bike trailer,and returning with a half ton bag of barley for feeding the other stock.
I`m sure i saw the coalman delivering coal in a rickshaw.

Cycling down the road to work may be fine to you,but others are in a different position,think of the bigger picture.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
I can imagine myself cycling 8mls to the Abattoir with a few pigs in a bike trailer,and returning with a half ton bag of barley for feeding the other stock.
I`m sure i saw the coalman delivering coal in a rickshaw.

Cycling down the road to work may be fine to you,but others are in a different position,think of the bigger picture.


The bigger picture is that oil is a precious, dwindling resource. What do you suggest we do when petrol reaches not 2 per litre, but 3, or 4? You're not thinking of the bigger picture, you're thinking about your own lifestyle. Is it sustainable?

Penny Outskirts



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
Cycling down the road to work may be fine to you,but others are in a different position,think of the bigger picture.


There is a very big picture - we cannot go on using oil like we do.

Cycling is not the answer, although a more cycle friendly world will help.

But we can't all just say I can't get my "x to y". We have to do things differently.

Bebo



Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12582
Location: East Sussex
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

In my view getting on a bike is not the answer, although I agree it would make a contribution to making the oil last longer. When it comes it'll be either electric vehicles (powered from a renewable resource) for moving heavy loads or back to the horse and cart. Rail for long distance trips, which will be either hugely expense or rationed in some other way to discourage travel. Local trips walk, cycle and maybe tram if there are improvements in renewable generation. Hopefully it'll result in a renaissance for local grocery shops and the death of the supermarket (which needs a huge catchment). In the meantime, until oil becomes prohibitively expensive things will go on as they are as no govt is going to have the balls to do the difficult things that a major step change in the way we live will require.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26895
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There will always be exception to rules, a farmers needs being one of them, but in general the shift is going to have to be made to people living nearer to the places they need to be.
e.g. they choose to live nearer where they work, and the facilities they need also shifting from somewhere massive on a ring road to smaller and more local.
Thus far there seems little to no sign of this being planned for in developments.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Penny Outskirts wrote:
There is a very big picture - we cannot go on using oil like we do.

Cycling is not the answer, although a more cycle friendly world will help.

But we can't all just say I can't get my "x to y". We have to do things differently.


Agree, except of course that cycling can be a large part of the answer. A very large proportion of journeys made in the UK are short, five miles or less. And a very large proportion of those trips can be walked or cycled.

Walking and cycling have been made ever more difficult and frightening as we've designed road infrastructure to exclude anyone not driving. Public transport has been getting more expensive, driving hasn't; that can't continue though.

Penny Outskirts



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
Penny Outskirts wrote:
There is a very big picture - we cannot go on using oil like we do.

Cycling is not the answer, although a more cycle friendly world will help.

But we can't all just say I can't get my "x to y". We have to do things differently.


Agree, except of course that cycling can be a large part of the answer. A very large proportion of journeys made in the UK are short, five miles or less. And a very large proportion of those trips can be walked or cycled.


By some people, but there are a lot of people for whom a five mile bike journey would not be possible

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4340
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Lifestyle,i hav`nt got a lifestyle,i`m trying to survive,

Overheads are killing me,but i cannot blame the Tories for last years poor havest World wide,forcing the feed prices through the roof.

Without fuel to run my business,i will have to get a Horse and Cart,
That system throughout the UK,Won`t feed the population.

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
tax out-of-town shopping parking spaces to create parity on parking costs with city centres


Stop being a big Nancy. Burn these Palaces of Hell to the ground, scatter salt among the ruins, and then hang the Boards of Directors, and display their tarred corpses on gibbets across the nation.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Penny Outskirts wrote:

By some people, but there are a lot of people for whom a five mile bike journey would not be possible


And a much larger proportion for who a 5 mile ride isn't, or shouldn't be, a big deal. Unless people in the UK are genetically puny compared to the Danes or the Dutch.

Last edited by cab on Sun Mar 06, 11 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:

That system throughout the UK,Won`t feed the population.


Short of ignoring the laws of physics and continuing to use energy we just won't have, whats your answer?

Bebo



Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12582
Location: East Sussex
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
Walking and cycling have been made ever more difficult and frightening as we've designed road infrastructure to exclude anyone not driving. Public transport has been getting more expensive, driving hasn't; that can't continue though.


There wasn't much in the way of transport policy prior to the 1960's and from then until the 1990's the focus was on creating more and more capacity for the car. That has changed and more focus is given now to pedestrian and cycle facilities and priority. Both car use and public transport has increased in cost over time. Until recently, the cost of public transport was being held back but govt policy on that has now changed. I was hopefully that gradually public transport would become more economic for even long trips outside of urban areas, but I can't see that happening soon.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Frankly I don't see evidence that we're really doing anything to move transport from the car to walking or cycling. I'm not aware of any good (Dutch or Danish grade) cycling facilities being built in the UK. Even in Cambridge, which has the highers modal share for cycling in the country, it took ten years to widen cycle lanes on one main route to 1.7m in either direction (still too narrow, but better than it was) and stop parking in them. Investment in cycling facilities has basically been scrapped in the spending review, the cupboard is now entirely bare.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4340
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I was never very good at physics in school,so you will have to enlighten me,

But i know,there is only so many cows you can keep in a field before they starve.

Its the population of the UK thats not sustainable

windyridge



Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Posts: 2732
Location: Up the garden from Henry
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 11 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Cycling in the flat fens is one thing.. cycling in a hilly area is no fun. You quote Dutch cycling.. in a mostly flat country.. can we really compare this to our own country?

What happens to the older and less able population... are they to be stuck indoors all the time... or will they be allowed to keep their cars.

No one method will answer the problems. As with power generation there will have to be a multi pronged plan

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