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Self sufficiency, how much land???
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tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45389
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:02 pm    Post subject: Self sufficiency, how much land??? Reply with quote
    

How much land do you need to be self sufficient in fuel and food in the British Isles?

judith



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

For a carnivore, vegetarian or vegan?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45389
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Judith wrote:
For a carnivore, vegetarian or vegan?


Any or all I'd say, should it take more or less land on a smallholding to keep animals? I my own case I'd like to have chickens free-ranging in my woods.

Jb



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 7761
Location: 91� N
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

and what sort of land? Rivers are good for carnivores but rather less so for vegetarians, sparse upland slopes are great for goats and sheep but not so hot for planting potatoes.

I have a vague recollection that the origin of one acre was that it was the area needed for one family, but that probably ignores all the common land that would have been available for hunting, foraging, fuel etc and probably ignores the fact that I've misremembered the figure.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Are you planning sustainable wood for you heat/fuel needs? I'd be interested to know what size of a managed wood you'd need. Electricity form what? Solar/wind/hydro?

Northern_Lad



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 14210
Location: Somewhere
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

JB wrote:
I have a vague recollection that the origin of one acre was that it was the area needed for one family,...


Standard measure of how much land land one horse and man team can plough in a day.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45389
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Behemoth wrote:
Are you planning sustainable wood for you heat/fuel needs? I'd be interested to know what size of a managed wood you'd need. Electricity form what? Solar/wind/hydro?


This is a non specific thing, but lets say you were looking at being enefgy self sufficient by using super insulation, wind, solar and a wood fuel backup.

The land is perhaps not the best in the world but by no means the worst, also lets ignore any "common" resources, which for the purpose of this topic will include rivers

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

How many are we feeding and I'm assuming the house will fit round them in amodest manner.

Is it a family of 4 or couple?

A family of 4 can be kept in veg on a 'standard' allotment. Fruit trees can be fitted in here and there.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45389
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Family of four

hils



Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 568
Location: Nottingham
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

What have you got up your sleeve Tahir (other than your watch!)?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45389
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

hils wrote:
What have you got up your sleeve Tahir (other than your watch!)?


I don't wear a watch.

judith



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

What are this family's requirements in terms of the meat they eat. If they only want poultry and dairy, and were prepared to drink goats' milk, then they would need a lot less space than if they wanted beef on a regular basis.
What grains would they want? Would they be growing all their animal feed? Hay, silage, grain for chickens, fodder beet, etc, etc.
Are they looking to turn a modest profit from their holding to pay for items that they can't grow or raise for themselves. Or will they say "if we can't grow it, we won't eat it". What about oil for cooking?
Do they want to keep breeding stock or would they buy in or barter for young stock to grow on?
Far too many questions to give a straightforward answer.

Bugs



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10744

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

hils wrote:
What have you got up your sleeve Tahir (other than your watch!)?


A nasty surprise for one of his children (or missus) for starters:

Quote:
Family of four




There are basic scenarios for 1 acre 5 acre etc holdings in Seymour, how accurate, I dunno...

Last edited by Bugs on Thu Sep 08, 05 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

As a rough guess, to give you a comfortable lifestyle with a varied(ish)diet, a minimum of 4 acres for the animals/food and 10 acres of established woodland.

You wouldn't have much beef in your diet though, and if you want to keep a house cow you need to rely on someone else's breeding stock.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45389
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 05 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

No profit, self sustaining, if livestock are kept then the feed would need to be produced on site, milk isn't an essential so we needn't worry about it.

I think we've got to disregard personal ethics (vegan/veggie etc) and just look at making the most effective use of the land.

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