Self sufficiency, how much land???

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Self sufficiency, how much land???
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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45426
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:23 pm Post subject:

Judith wrote:

tahir wrote:

millet

Where is this farm?

British Isles (anywhere) I'm just saying that wheat's not our only option.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:27 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Wheat is not essential, when my mum and dad had to leave India they weren't able to harvest enough wheat to eat for at least a couple of years, survived on maize, millet and some other grains that I have no idea of the English names of.

Probably looking at the land requirements in "3rd world countries" would be a good way of going, though it might be difficult finding a suitable example with a similar maritime climate to ours. Or, more sensibly, back in the middle ages, how much land did you have (as a serf),

Peter.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:34 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

British Isles (anywhere) I'm just saying that wheat's not our only option.

But are you implying that it's not the best option. I'm certainly interested in trying amaranths. I think that hemp also has a lot going for it,

Peter.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45426
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:40 pm Post subject:
What I'm saying is that modern wheat yields are so high because of the inputs they require, a lot of these other crops are much easier to look after and have more than one use.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:43 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

What I'm saying is that modern wheat yields are so high because of the inputs they require, a lot of these other crops are much easier to look after and have more than one use.

Agreed. Though presumably there's something about wheat. It's had a very long history and is very popular in very many parts of the world,

Peter.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45426
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:45 pm Post subject:

Blue Peter wrote:

Agreed. Though presumably there's something about wheat. It's had a very long history and is very popular in very many parts of the world,

High gluten levels?

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:46 pm Post subject:

I went for wheat because I thought it would be most productive and versatile. I would probably add barley and fields beans if I had to feed chooks and pigs. Problem is that I have no idea about yields.
I would still argue, though, that every additional crop will increase the amount of land required compared to monoculture, and it will certainly increase the time and effort required so our family still need to make some hard choices about what they are going to grow!

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:55 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Blue Peter wrote:

Agreed. Though presumably there's something about wheat. It's had a very long history and is very popular in very many parts of the world,

High gluten levels?

I was wondering that. Is it the only thing you can make a "proper" leavened loaf of bread from?

Peter.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:55 pm Post subject:

Judith wrote:

I would still argue, though, that every additional crop will increase the amount of land required compared to monoculture, and it will certainly increase the time and effort required so our family still need to make some hard choices about what they are going to grow!

How do things stack up if you have a community, though? Is the whole greater than the sum of the parts?

Peter.

Last edited by Blue Peter on Thu Sep 08, 05 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45426
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 3:58 pm Post subject:

Blue Peter wrote:

How do things stack up if you have a community, though/ Is the whole greater than the sum of the parts?

Things get exponentially better, it doesn't take much more fuel to bake 20 loaves of bread than one etc.

Specialisation within communities definitely has a lot of advantages, I suppose that's why we're social animals.

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 4:28 pm Post subject:
Sounds as though you have talked yourself out of this self-sufficiency idea

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45426
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 4:33 pm Post subject:

Judith wrote:

Sounds as though you have talked yourself out of this self-sufficiency idea

I've no ambition to be self sufficient, except perhaps in chicken and eggs, it's just one of those questions that people often ask

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 4:40 pm Post subject:
I think the answer to the question is that you can't - people never have been since they moved on from the hunter-gatherer life.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 4:40 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Judith wrote:

Sounds as though you have talked yourself out of this self-sufficiency idea

I've no ambition to be self sufficient, except perhaps in chicken and eggs, it's just one of those questions that people often ask

Peter.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45426
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 05 4:44 pm Post subject:

Judith wrote:

I think the answer to the question is that you can't - people never have been since they moved on from the hunter-gatherer life.

You're probably right, when my mum and dad were subsistence farmers a lot of what they did was communal, it just couldn't have been done any other way. It'd still be interesting to know how small a community (in how much land) could realistically be self sufficient.

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