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Gun laws for 12 year olds. (In Australia)
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Nell Merionwen



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 9:58 am    Post subject: Gun laws for 12 year olds. (In Australia)  Reply with quote    

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18688488


Well?

Personally, I don't see that a 12 year old should ever be left alone with a gun. How would you be sure they have been able to "distance themselves" and not be upset at the outcome?
Also how would you be sure they are shooting the right prey and not something that is protected?
Should we be promoting hunting as fun rather than a necessary sport?
Is this not adding to the worry about children becoming too conditioned to guns and killing, compounding the potential problem of children playing inappropriate games. Becoming blasé about guns and killing?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

It depends on the individual. I would be happier with some 12 year old children shooting than some adults and visa-versa.

Pilsbury



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 5645
Location: East london/Essex
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I have had an air rifle since I was 14, my dad bought it for me and I have grown up with a healthy respect for firearms and quarry.

Mary-Jane



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 18397
Location: The Fishing Strumpet is from Ceredigion in West Wales
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
It depends on the individual. I would be happier with some 12 year old children shooting than some adults and visa-versa.


Same here. I was brought up around guns and I have handled them since I was younger than 12. My eldest (now late) brother taught me to shoot and more importantly, drummed all the safety issues into me too.

Nell Merionwen



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?
I would be more concerned by the amount of children who could get their hands on a gun without any sort of training or instruction.

Pilsbury



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 5645
Location: East london/Essex
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Actually having read the whole article I might have to re think, not on the gun issue but I read its as 12 - 17 yo hunting alone with knives, dogs and bows. No mention of under 18 alone with guns and they can already hunt with supervision with firearms from the age of 12.
I really don't fancy letting 12 year olds out with just a knife against a feral pig......

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nell Merionwen wrote:
perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?


Where does it say in that article they don't?

Nell Merionwen



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Nell Merionwen wrote:
perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?


Where does it say in that article they don't?


I have not suggested they do or don't, I am stating that it is a wise thing to do.
My query is not about whether they have the right to hunt or not but is more about whether they should be left alone to do so.

NorthernMonkeyGirl



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4349
Location: Peeping over your shoulder
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in, and their own temperament. A 12 year old Aussie who has watched Mum or Dad hunt, skin/gut/clean, cook etc I would probably trust. A 12 year old from down the road here? No chance!

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nell Merionwen wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
Nell Merionwen wrote:
perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?


Where does it say in that article they don't?


I have not suggested they do or don't, I am stating that it is a wise thing to do.
My query is not about whether they have the right to hunt or not but is more about whether they should be left alone to do so.


Why not? I can't see a valid reason to not allow say a 17 year old to hunt on their own if they've hunted for years with someone over 17.

I don't really know enough to know if the age limit should be 12, I would hope the childs parent or guardian to decide that. What do you think the age limit it should be and why?

Nell Merionwen



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Nell Merionwen wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
Nell Merionwen wrote:
perhaps the 12 year olds should go through some sort of screening to ensure they know what is involved and that they are safe?


Where does it say in that article they don't?


I have not suggested they do or don't, I am stating that it is a wise thing to do.
My query is not about whether they have the right to hunt or not but is more about whether they should be left alone to do so.


Why not? I can't see a valid reason to not allow say a 17 year old to hunt on their own if they've hunted for years with someone over 17.

I don't really know enough to know if the age limit should be 12, I would hope the childs parent or guardian to decide that. What do you think the age limit it should be and why?


It's a big question.
I have a 13 year old boy who has been hunting with his Grandpa on many occasions. I have absolutely no issues about his safety or responsibility.
However, I would not allow him to go alone. 12 year olds (boys in particular in my experience) are given to being a bit "silly" and are prone to bravado. This would worry me.
there is a world of difference between a responsible teen shooting/culling on their own land for the good of the land. Going "hunting" gives me a different picture.
I also know that by the age of 14/15 the two teenage boys that I know well and have handled guns have become a lot more mature in those few years.
I don't think that I am well qualified to say what age it should be. I am not a professional in child development and can only go by my own experience.
I personally have not met a single 12 year old boy I would happily send off hunting with no adult supervision. However, I grew up in a typical suburban British home. Not out in the Australian outback.
I think a blanket law of allowing 12 year olds to hunt without supervision is a dangerous can of worms. You may well make life easier for rural farmers to allow their young offspring to help. This I can see would be a good thing. However, you are also allowing the 12 year olds who have no prior experience to have unsupervised permission to do the same.
I think any dangerous equipment should have a restriction upon it. From driving to handling a dangerous weapon. I also wouldn't like to see a 12 year old behind the wheel of a car without adult supervision.

So in conclusion I believe 12 to be too young.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

13 then? Perhaps 14, or 15? Where would you draw the line? Is age a good metric or are there others that would serve better such as maturity, training, responsibility?

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33865
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I imagine the law would require an age. That's not to prevent additional checks and balances such as training, supervision, police checks, or whatever, but I think age age has to be included. And it will be wrong for some people, wherever you put it.

Nell Merionwen



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
13 then? Perhaps 14, or 15? Where would you draw the line? Is age a good metric or are there others that would serve better such as maturity, training, responsibility?


Personally I would like to say 16. However, I know that would be unreasonable.
As I said, I am not an expert in child development. I am, however and expert in my own son. 12 would not have been old enough. He is showing greater maturity and perhaps by 14 or 15 he would be fine.
I don't know the answer. I do feel (and this is my own personal feelings) that 12 is too young.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15081
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 12 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:
My sensible head says that "tribesmen" (for want of a better word) are out hunting and gathering from a very early age - why are Westernised children such delicate little flowers?
However, it is so dependent on the culture the child has grown up in...

Exactly.
In some cultures they'd have an AK47 and a grenade launcher by the time they're that age.

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