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Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

1) Of course it's up to your friend, I didn't think I'd suggested otherwise.

2) That's always been my mum's excuse, it's just plain wrong. People don't not use you because they know you will want paying, or if they do then you're well shut of them as they are costing you money, not making it. There are plenty of genuine customers who are prepared to pay for a job well done and your reputation should be built upon that, not working on a reputation as a soft touch.

3) Repairs & alterations are in no way stifling to creativity - I've seen what my mum does and tbh cutting out and creating from scratch is far less creative than working with a limited amount of material and changing a design so that it still looks good when altered. I agree with the not as well paid bit, but then neither is the design side. At least between alterations as the bread and butter she could be being creative - it's much harder to do that either during or after work.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yummersetter wrote:
I work for companies like the BBC and the national press and they make it very clear that you don't set the terms, they do.


I supplied a council earlier this year and it was exactly the same for them - they have their procurement procedures and you follow them, or you don't supply, but at least in that process you know the money is coming.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15387
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yummersetter wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
So you are faced with the choice of losing a customer because you don't want to deal with someone who doesn't pay, and losing a customer because they are upset that you went to court.

I know I am a bit odd, but I am not finding any difficulty in choosing.


I didn't say anything about customers who don't pay. I wrote about customers who pay within two months...

Then I think my comments were not directed at you.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34411
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Feh. Man up. I'm just telling the NHS their terms are unacceptable. They'll back down, if they want what you're supplying, and its not ridiculous.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15387
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Midland Spinner wrote:
1) It's up to my friend, I was only commenting in a general way...

As was I.

Midland Spinner



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

1) No you didn't suggest otherwise, but I'm getting a bit uncomfortable talking about her while she isn't here. And I wanted to make it clear that I'm not talking about myself, so I'm not in full possession of the facts or the motivation. In fact, I'm not going to prolong this discussion after this post.

2) When every customer matters, you don't want to run the risk of scaring them off by getting a reputation for taking people to court or whatever 'at the slightest provocation' as was sort of suggested above (yes, you know, and I know that it's a last resort, but potential customers will just hear that "XXX took so&so to court over a fiddly small amount so don't buy from them" If they hear the reputation for suing for payment first, they won't listen to the reputation for making wonderful things.

3) I hate repairs, I don't sew, so that was a personal judgement - I'd rather stack shelves than try to make a living altering existing garments if I knew that I had the skill to make something wonderful instead if only people would pay me for it)

4) Yummersetter, could you please edit your post to make it a quote from HL not from me - I didn't say that!

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25705
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Midland Spinner wrote:
4) Yummersetter, could you please edit your post to make it a quote from HL not from me - I didn't say that!


Quote corrected.

Midland Spinner



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Midland Spinner wrote:
4) Yummersetter, could you please edit your post to make it a quote from HL not from me - I didn't say that!


Quote corrected.


Thanks

yummersetter



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

So sorry

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Midland Spinner wrote:
2) When every customer matters, you don't want to run the risk of scaring them off by getting a reputation for taking people to court or whatever 'at the slightest provocation' as was sort of suggested above (yes, you know, and I know that it's a last resort, but potential customers will just hear that "XXX took so&so to court over a fiddly small amount so don't buy from them" If they hear the reputation for suing for payment first, they won't listen to the reputation for making wonderful things.


OK we won't discuss this specific case any further but in general terms it's not the right way to go about running a business, putting up with people not paying you because you're scared that genuine customers will be put off by that. Non-payers are a cost to any business and the more of them you have, the more good payers you need to subsidise them. It's a viscous circle if you let it be one.

Lorrainelovesplants



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 6521
Location: Dordogne
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Ive actually found dealing with council fine.
Ive invoiced them previously for people attending courses and they have paid before the actual course took place.

Midland Spinner



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Rob R wrote:
in general terms it's not the right way to go about running a business, putting up with people not paying you because you're scared that genuine customers will be put off by that. Non-payers are a cost to any business and the more of them you have, the more good payers you need to subsidise them. It's a viscous circle if you let it be one.


I agree - it's far far better to have proper paying customers from the start.

chez



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35931
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I think it's something you learn as you go along, though - and you have to work out how your industry works.

The rock and roll industry used to be notorious - I don't know if it still is - but you would rig the gig, test it all then lock down the desks and pocket the key until you were paid in full, in cash, before the gig started.

crofter



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hairyloon wrote:
I think people should be quicker to litigate: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk


But how quick? If it is somebody who is going to pay, but is slow, you have lost that customer. Soon you may not have many left. No customers = no business. I agree with yummersetter, up to 60 days is normal for most businesses, for some, under 2 months is considered quick!

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15387
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

crofter wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
I think people should be quicker to litigate: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk


But how quick? If it is somebody who is going to pay, but is slow, you have lost that customer.

You are obliged by CPR to write a Letter Before Action before you take the step of going to court.
You can try to make it as friendly a letter as possible.

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