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The story of the Aran sweater.

 
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Gai



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 408
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 12 1:33 pm    Post subject: The story of the Aran sweater. Reply with quote
    

Interesting little film about Aran sweaters.
https://youtu.be/rDDE-ZwCaZo

Luath



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 761

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 12 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Great little film of historical interest. I understand , though that up to about the 1900 - 1920s when steps were taken to set up the knitting industry proper ( as it says in the film) the sweaters were much plainer. The complicated Celtic style patterns and religious connotations were introduced and charted/written when they were trying to get it all going as a viable industry for the remote islands. Ths, the patterns themselves, relating to Aran sweaters are much younger, and myth has grown up about them.
I'm not sure which version is 'true', and not that bothered, as it's all part of the history of the Aran sweater, bit like the Spanish Armada introducing patterns to tehe Fair Isle.
Thanks for the link

Midland Spinner



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 12 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Bobbins!
It's a clever intermixing of fact & myth, with a bit of scenic photography, some pipe music and a few old photos.

But it's basically wrong - the history of knitting only goes back a few centuries (and its origins are shrouded in mist and controversy). Next thing they'll be showing that illustration of a man covered in knotwork from the Book of Kells and saying its proof that they were wearing Aran onezies!

I wish I knew where they got the 'proof' that the Celtic peasants were 'knitting on primitive wooden needles' in the first century. (@1 min 40 s in. ) I don't know of any knitting that early (I wish I did!).

arvo



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: Somerset
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 12 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hmm be nice if they had a citation, *but* the more we discover about so called *primitive* people. The more we discover that they had a shed-load of technology like us, just pertaining to their geographical conditions and view of the world.

Romans had engineering, cryptography and central heating.
Greeks had philosophy, science and democracy.
Celts had metalworking and the oldest written & still spoken language.

Knitting doesn't seem like a big ask for a civilisation that had such advanced culture in other areas (eg burials) ?

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 12 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Midland Spinner wrote:


I wish I knew where they got the 'proof' that the Celtic peasants were 'knitting on primitive wooden needles' in the first century. (@1 min 40 s in. ) I don't know of any knitting that early (I wish I did!).


ah, they'll have read The Sacred History Of Knitting
by Heinz Edgar Kiewe , possibly one of the silliest books on the planet, complete with pictures of 'knitted' Byrrus Brittanicus

Midland Spinner



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 12 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

arvo wrote:
Knitting doesn't seem like a big ask for a civilisation that had such advanced culture in other areas (eg burials) ?


The earliest known examples of knitting date to about 1000AD - despite all our best efforts, no-one has found any knitting from earlier than that. All the earlier textiles which people thought were knitting have turned out on further inspection to be other techniques (sprang, nalbinding, tablet weaving). And all the earliest pieces of knitting are from Egypt or the middle east, and tend to have inscriptions knitted into them in Arabic (or it's early equivalent).

I'd love for knitting to have originated in Ireland in the first century with the Celts. But there's no proof at all. This myth about knitting dating back to the Celts/early Christians surfaces from time to time, it appears to have originated with Hienz Edgar Kiewe who first promoted Aran knitting and wrote a book called "The Sacred History of Knitting".

e.t.a. Cross posted with Sally

arvo



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: Somerset
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 12 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Neat. So 1000AD in the Middle East/ Egypt.
So I need to add knitting astronomy/ more crypography/ rule of law and zero as civilisation advances of the Middle East nations then.

I *love* history.

ETA

When did all that over and under Celtic pattern-work come into being then?

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 12 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

arvo wrote:


When did all that over and under Celtic pattern-work come into being then?


Most of it is early medieval, so somewhere in the region of 600-1000ad, you do get interlace patterns in other cultures at other times, but the stuff most of us think of as 'celtic knotwork' is typically found on, for example (lots of other people at the same broad date using it too), Viking period ornamentation. It gets confused in peoples minds because when the average person says 'the Celts' they mean the pre-Roman iron age, but their decoration is usually much more plastic and features spirals, curves and similar much more than it does interlace patterns. Then it all has a whopping great Victorian revival, which further muddies the generalised descriptions

Luath



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 761

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 12 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Luath wrote:
Great little film of historical interest.


I actually meant the photos and footage here btw; I suspect we'll never know the whole truth about the origins of knitting but I still like reading all the theories. Might look out for that book Sally too

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 12 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

[quote="Luath:1305360"]
Luath wrote:
. Might look out for that book Sally too


Don't go out of your way, its so bad I actually had tears of laughter rolling down my face when I firt read it, I had to stop and check it wasn't meant to be a spoof!

Midland Spinner



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 12 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

[quote="sally_in_wales:1305383"]
Luath wrote:
Luath wrote:
. Might look out for that book Sally too


Don't go out of your way, its so bad I actually had tears of laughter rolling down my face when I firt read it, I had to stop and check it wasn't meant to be a spoof!



Luath



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 761

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 12 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I got that impression yes, so am intrigued now; lathough it does ring a bell, so I might have already come across it. I have memories of head shaking

Think I'll stick with the rather nice Richard Rutt which I won on e-bay yesterday

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 12 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I'm still pondering about "primitive wooden knitting needles", in what way could the design be improved? 3,000 years of technological advances, with input from the greatest civilisations we now have needles made of, you guessed it, bamboo.

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