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Airships - worth a try?
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Erikht



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3358

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 12:06 pm    Post subject: Airships - worth a try? Reply with quote
    

As we all know, plane travel is one of the more pollutive activeties one can engage in, and it is used for both passenger flights and freight transport. As well as polluting, the fuel costs are staggering.

Airships, at the other hand, use little fuel. So why not use airships?

In the thirties, there was two accidents, and this led to the demise of airship travel. Also, the trips took a long time, up to five days for a transatlantic crossing. Modern airsips, at the other hand, can go much faster, and if the author of this article is right, an airship could travel from London to New York in just 10 hours. Not such a long time, I dare say. Even at a slover speed, cargo freight would be feasible.

Also, modern airsips should be able to lift heavier weights that the old ships, making it economically feasible to fill the with cargo and passangers. They would also be safe, as modern airsips consists of many baloons instead of one gas-filled body. An explosion would not be able to take out enough of them to sink the ship. The ship can be cut in half, and both parts would still stay in the air. For freight cargo, this should be a no-brainer, as fruit and vegetables could be transportet at reasonably high speed, with very little need for refrigeration (very cold up there. You would actually have to heat the storage space. With good insulation, this should not prove too expencive.





https://www.helium.com/items/666669-modern-airships-reduce-pollution-and-are-cheaper


The last posting here seems interresting:
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/modern-airships-5989.html#post188930

Article about the transpostation of food:

https://www.articlesfactory.com/articles/advertising/airships-for-the-transportation-of-perishable-food.html

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/walrus-heavylift-blimp-getting-off-the-ground-01103/

https://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/military-aviation/10627d1210285758-few-thoughts-airships-aeroscraft.jpg

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Isn't the main issue with them the scarcity of helium?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45384
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

tis dependant on recovery from natural gas and popular beyond supply at the mo the shortfall is from the us strategic reserves iirc

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42207
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Of course, if we crack fusion we'll have more Helium than you can shake a stick at...[/holding breath]

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:
tis dependant on recovery from natural gas and popular beyond supply at the mo the shortfall is from the us strategic reserves iirc

I thought it came from fractional distillation of air.

But why not use hydrogen? It is a shed load cheaper.
Ok, it is a little bit explosive, but are modern materials not up to the task of containing it?
In any case, I don't believe that the hydrogen was the major factor in the famous crashes.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45384
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

even with plenty of gas there is still the problems of weather ,wind etc and they dont do over mountains at all well ,they are a bit iffy over land in general.some obvious routes would not work in both directions due to prevailing winds

however boats float fairly well and can be driven with sails if speed is not important ,
far ,fast and bulky needs a lot of energy whatever the means and might be best avoided

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:
.some obvious routes would not work in both directions due to prevailing winds

Have to do a loop, like they did in the old days
Quote:
however boats float fairly well and can be driven with sails if speed is not important ,

There is a lot to be said for sail power. I'm quite surprised it is taking so long to make a comeback.

mochyn



Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hello Erikht! Not spoken to you for ages!

Erikht



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3358

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:
even with plenty of gas there is still the problems of weather ,wind etc and they dont do over mountains at all well ,they are a bit iffy over land in general.some obvious routes would not work in both directions due to prevailing winds

however boats float fairly well and can be driven with sails if speed is not important ,
far ,fast and bulky needs a lot of energy whatever the means and might be best avoided


So London-New York would actually
be a good route?

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The long way around.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45384
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

maybe london azores new york and ny greenland london would work

anywhere to switzerland might be a bit bumpy

chez



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35934
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I think it's an idea that could stand exploring. In the inter-war years airship travel was marketed as an alternative to luxury liners and five days to cross the Atlantic, or London to Cairo was seen as a nice jaunt. I have seen photos of the dining room of the R101 that bring the Titanic to mind.

I don't think they were even *trying* find a viable alternative to air-plane travel; or think about the applicable uses for transporting goods. I think they were just vanity projects; certainly the R101 was sent out on her maiden voyage before the engineers who were building her thought she was ready, because of pressure from the Air Ministry. My Great Uncle told me once that he had seen her flying over London and it was clear even then that something wasn't right; she was at an odd angle in the air.

I think the dreadful way she and the Hindenburg exploded scared everyone off; and there was no sensible inert alternative to hydrogen. And then the second world war came along and I suppose the race to develop jet engines got all the attention and afterwards, the funding. I reckon that with modern technology applied; and without hubris, they would be a good idea - much better to work with the atmosphere rather than against it, which is in effect what heavier than air flight does.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Chez wrote:
I reckon that with modern technology applied; and without hubris, they would be a good idea - much better to work with the atmosphere rather than against it, which is in effect what heavier than air flight does.


linky

john of wessex



Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2130

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 13 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I really need a comment from m y brother whose a balloon engineer, but, as far as I can see even allowing for modern technology it seems that you cannot make them strong or powerful enough to withstand poor weather

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45384
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 13 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

i though that some of the newer super materials might have uses in making a practical airship ,the weather is the main problem ,if conditions are predicable for the journey it might work ,any sudden gusts and things might be messy .

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