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Pumping water
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tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44159
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 9:38 am    Post subject: Pumping water  Reply with quote    

I'm looking at pumping water from a spring up to a header tank for irrigation purposes, the highest point of the land (where the tank would sit) is probably 30 ft higher and maybe 400 ft away from the source.

I'd also like the spring to feed a pond at the spring level

Someone suggested a ram pump might be the solution:

http://greenandcarter.com

Any ideas anyone? And what trade am I looking for in Yellow Pages? Basically it's construction of a pond and install of ram pump and header tank.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Will a ram pump work? they are damned robust and last for years but a bit expensive. However I think they rely on a decent flow of water from a stream/river etc. What sort of flow are you getting from the spring?

Cat has plenty of info on them though.

What about a windpowered pump? or a solar powered 12v electric pump?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44159
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My initial thoughts were a solar powered one but that's going to depend on the weather, the ram pump's going to be 24/7 and is robust as you like (lifetime guarantee) I definitely need someone to do a site visit though, just dunno who I'm looking for.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

But in reality you don't need to pump 24/7 you just need to keep the header tank topped up so it will run when needed. You just need a float valve with reed switch or similar.

As for trades, how big a pond do you need? You can move a hell of as lot of earth in a day with a digger. You just need to think about lining it, either with clay or with a man made liner.

I think you can plan and do it yourself, with maybe a digger driver or a couple of labourers.

Or you could employ me?

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Surely you'd do it out of love?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44159
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Jonnyboy wrote:
Or you could employ me?


No probs, as long you don't try any funny business.

Anyway at the moment when it's not feeding the cattle troughs the spring just sort of seeps into the stream, I'd like the stream to be fed more regularly and sensibly, also I want the pond to have some kind of permeable edge to keep the adjacent blueberry patch (to be) soggy

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Does the stream dry up in summer or flow all year round? If so you just need to get the ram pump into that.

For the blueberry patch i think you still need the pond appropriately but a soakaway near the upper water level so that excess water drains to your patch without risk of emptying the pond. a small drain filled with clean 3" stones should do it.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Behemoth wrote:
Surely you'd do it out of love?


Hmmm, both you and NL seem to be taking an extreme interest in promoting man love. I think you may be displacing your own feelings somewhat.

(Freud would be nodding and stroking his beard right now)

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44159
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Jonnyboy wrote:
Does the stream dry up in summer or flow all year round? If so you just need to get the ram pump into that.


All year flow, I know I don't need a pond, just thought it'd be nice to have one and it could serve as reservoir for the blueberries

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44159
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Jonnyboy wrote:
For the blueberry patch i think you still need the pond appropriately but a soakaway near the upper water level so that excess water drains to your patch without risk of emptying the pond. a small drain filled with clean 3" stones should do it.


See, you've lost me. I just need someone to come along and say look mate this is what you need and this is where to put it.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44159
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Jonnyboy wrote:
Hmmm, both you and NL seem to be taking an extreme interest in promoting man love. I think you may be displacing your own feelings somewhat.

(Freud would be nodding and stroking his beard right now)


Similar thoughts have crossed my mind recently, maybe NL won't be single for much longer...

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

How much fall do you have - below - the spring?

You rely on the energy of most of the water dropping that amount to give you power to pump some of it up to your delivery point.
They need fall AND flow.
Thus its important that the minimum spring flowrate is adequate to provide enough power to supply something like your maximum demand. I'd expect you are likely to need water most at times of minimum rainfall / hot weather. Although storage at the top would help to overcome this phase difference between supply and demand...

I suspect that you are going to need a minimum 3 or 4 ft head. (10% of delivery head?) And that means some sort of a dam or weir to pen back the springwater to give you that head. IMHO that's more significant EDIT as civil engineering than the storage at the top.

Perhaps talking to the pump suppliers might give you some more info sources?
I found http://www.lifewater.ca/ram_pump.htm with lots of links...

Pipe. 400 ft is significant. The resistive (viscous) losses are going to become important with a small bore pipe (effectively increasing the delivery head).

Last edited by dougal on Fri Oct 21, 05 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Jonnyboy wrote:
Hmmm, both you and NL seem to be taking an extreme interest in promoting man love. I think you may be displacing your own feelings somewhat.

(Freud would be nodding and stroking his beard right now)


Similar thoughts have crossed my mind recently, maybe NL won't be single for much longer...


Well I am broad minded but NL comes form the dirty side of the Pennines.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44159
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dougal wrote:
How much fall do you have - below - the spring?


There's not much of a fall at the spring head, you'd have to go probably 40 ft to get a significant drop.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44159
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 05 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Behemoth wrote:
NL comes form the dirty side of the Pennines.


It shows

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