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Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 14 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Quote:
Natural England have the right to impose an absolute access restriction between 1st March and 31st July (i.e. not even dogs on lead) however there is another provision that allows customary rights to override the provisions of the CROW Act. It might be argued that on Addingham High Moor, for example, dogs have customarily been allowed at all times, and this overrides the absolute restriction imposed by Natural England. Similarly, it might be argued that there have never been any dog restrictions on Ilkley Moor and this overrides the general requirement to keep a dog on lead during the period from 1st March to 31st July.


Probably best to quote all, rather than part.

unlacedgecko



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 14 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Sheep are extremely useful on grouse moors as they act as tick sponges, reducing the amount of ticks which can attack the grouse.

Dogs do not play with deer or sheep or ground nesting birds. They hunt them. When a collie dog gathers sheep it is hunting them.

Grouse and sheep generate revenue for the landowner. Do dog walkers?

Sheep in the UK can lamb at any time of the year. Sheep are at risk of dog worrying all year round.

A dog which is running free is not under control. A farmer has a legal defence if he shoots a dog which is at large in a field with livestock in.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 14 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Jamanda wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Horses are fine, too.


Your source?


It would depend on the individual bye-laws


It's a Section 193 common.

(And, specifically, the moors' own web site.)

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 14 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Nick wrote:
Probably best to quote all, rather than part.


I quoted the legal stuff from Natural England and a very good reason from a site connected to the Moor so hardly selective quoting.

By all means ignore everything and walk the dog off a lead at this time of year, but then don't moan if a farmer has a go or if there's less bird life in the area, even if you wish to blame it on others.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 14 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

No, I think you're right, tbh, just your quote is potentially incorrect, it's all.

Customary rights might trump Natural England. Shotgun trumps dog, tho, for sure.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 14 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Nick wrote:
Quote:
Natural England have the right to impose an absolute access restriction between 1st March and 31st July (i.e. not even dogs on lead) however there is another provision that allows customary rights to override the provisions of the CROW Act. It might be argued that on Addingham High Moor, for example, dogs have customarily been allowed at all times, and this overrides the absolute restriction imposed by Natural England. Similarly, it might be argued that there have never been any dog restrictions on Ilkley Moor and this overrides the general requirement to keep a dog on lead during the period from 1st March to 31st July.


Probably best to quote all, rather than part.


Was that in answer to me?

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 14 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

No-one's mentioned the worms and the ducks.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 14 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Nick wrote:
Jamanda wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Horses are fine, too.


Your source?


It would depend on the individual bye-laws


It's a Section 193 common.

(And, specifically, the moors' own web site.)


And does that state you can turn horses out on it? ('cause the quote only mentioned dogs as far as I could see).

OtleyLad



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 14 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I'm not sure if you are aware of just how many dog-walkers use the moor. We go up there just about everyday of the week. We don't go at any regular time of day either. Whatever day/time there are literally dozens of people walking dogs (unless its raining heavily). There are several popular parking/walking spots too, on the northern side anyway.
Most walk on the lower/mid slopes with far fewer on the tops.
These mid/lower slopes are criss-crossed by footpaths-in quite a few areas there is not much more than 25m between them.

Its also a very popular walking area and many people come to visit to see the stone-circles, rock-carvings not to mention the general scenery.

My point is that its a popular, very well-used council owned amenity. The many visitors contribute hugely to the local economy i am sure.

OtleyLad



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 14 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Jamanda wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Horses are fine, too.


Your source?


It would depend on the individual bye-laws


It's a Section 193 common.

(And, specifically, the moors' own web site.)


And does that state you can turn horses out on it? ('cause the quote only mentioned dogs as far as I could see).


People do ride on the moor, but I've not seen any horses running free. Recently we've seen deer though.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 14 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

OtleyLad wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Jamanda wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Horses are fine, too.


Your source?


It would depend on the individual bye-laws


It's a Section 193 common.

(And, specifically, the moors' own web site.)


And does that state you can turn horses out on it? ('cause the quote only mentioned dogs as far as I could see).


People do ride on the moor, but I've not seen any horses running free. Recently we've seen deer though.


No, I meant riding, not grazing.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 14 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Quote:
Natural England have the right to impose an absolute access restriction between 1st March and 31st July (i.e. not even dogs on lead) however there is another provision that allows customary rights to override the provisions of the CROW Act. It might be argued that on Addingham High Moor, for example, dogs have customarily been allowed at all times, and this overrides the absolute restriction imposed by Natural England. Similarly, it might be argued that there have never been any dog restrictions on Ilkley Moor and this overrides the general requirement to keep a dog on lead during the period from 1st March to 31st July.


Probably best to quote all, rather than part.


Was that in answer to me?


No, clearly not.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 14 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The ridge line of outley chevin and ilkley moor is on the border of rural/urban use. Both fall within city council areas and border large pop centres. For many they are a park. The aspirations of different users will mean compromises all round. Personally I'd prefer there was a designated free range dog area so that irresponsible owners had no excuse. As an aside, shooting rights are usually the biggest stumbling block for changing upland management practices.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 14 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Nick wrote:
OtleyLad wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Jamanda wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Nick wrote:
Horses are fine, too.


Your source?


It would depend on the individual bye-laws


It's a Section 193 common.

(And, specifically, the moors' own web site.)


And does that state you can turn horses out on it? ('cause the quote only mentioned dogs as far as I could see).


People do ride on the moor, but I've not seen any horses running free. Recently we've seen deer though.


No, I meant riding, not grazing.


And riders rarely untack and let their animals run free for a bit which is unique to dogs. If it's a shared space with horse riders and dogs then there's even more reason to keep them on a lead at all times. We recently went to Skipwith common (horses running free and a bridleway) with the dog and despite many notices informing you to keep them on a lead at all times, most dogs were running free. It puts me off going again if you have to be reminding other people that their dog wouldn't be out of control if they just observed the rules.

madcat



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 1265
Location: worcester
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 14 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I think dog owners have just got to understand that their beloved pet can be viewed as a threat by other animals and keep it on its lead .

I was astonished by people at Wonderwool who considered it ok to bring their dogs near to the sheep at the event. This included allowing the dog to stick its head through the bars of a pen. I would have had a hissy fit if they were my sheep , I certainly gave the daft person the evil eye . The sheeps owner politely told them off.

Dogs are like children , when they are good they are very very good but when they are bad they are horrid.

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