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Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14984
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 11:37 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Flywheel technology looks promising.

Graham Hyde



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:


A far more significant waste is the heat loss from the power stations: they have to losew a lot of heat, but why don't they put it to some good use? CHP plants are few and far between.


I was involved in a number of these CHP plants way back when there was a tax/grant incentive. Is that not the case now?

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14984
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There is a FIT incentive for micro-CHP, but neither of the MCS registered boilermakers answered their email when I made enquiries.
Maybe I should hassle DeFRA again...

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3998
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Tavascarow wrote:
Gas is cleaner burning. Less particulates, virtually zero sulphur & nitrogen compounds. It produces no more or less CO2 though.[/quote]

But its Fracked Gas that Ed Davy is talking about.

Graham Hyde



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

How about this story about global oil policy.
I was based in the Middle East, working as the General Manager for the largest American M&E company in both Kuwait and in Qatar. The General Manager position in the Middle East means head of the company in that country. I had a combined workforce of about 2.5k.
It was the time America was looking for an alternative source to the Middle East for oil. They had picked Libya and were trying to do a PR job on Gaddafi, family visits to Disney World Paris, politicians sitting in a tent with him in the middle of a desert. You remember those pictures?
Well, I had a visit from two Texans, one a mayor of a city in Texas, the other an owner of a private bank. They had letters of introduction from the White House, photos of them both with both Bushes, formal and informal photos at BBQ's and the like.
They wanted me to set up a branch of the company in Libya, I could choose which ever contracts I wanted and they would be awarded unconditionally. They wanted for publicity, this large American corporation to be seen working for and in Libya. Wanted me to sit in a tent in the desert. One of these jokers was wearing an antique Rolex which I commented on. He immediately tried to presented this to me as a gift. Worth about 15k. That ended the meeting for me but I often wondered what those UK Politians accepted for sitting in that tent.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44104
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Graham Hyde wrote:
How about this story about global oil policy.
I was based in the Middle East, working as the General Manager for the largest American M&E company in both Kuwait and in Qatar. The General Manager position in the Middle East means head of the company in that country. I had a combined workforce of about 2.5k.
It was the time America was looking for an alternative source to the Middle East for oil. They had picked Libya and were trying to do a PR job on Gaddafi, family visits to Disney World Paris, politicians sitting in a tent with him in the middle of a desert. You remember those pictures?
Well, I had a visit from two Texans, one a mayor of a city in Texas, the other an owner of a private bank. They had letters of introduction from the White House, photos of them both with both Bushes, formal and informal photos at BBQ's and the like.
They wanted me to set up a branch of the company in Libya, I could choose which ever contracts I wanted and they would be awarded unconditionally. They wanted for publicity, this large American corporation to be seen working for and in Libya. Wanted me to sit in a tent in the desert. One of these jokers was wearing an antique Rolex which I commented on. He immediately tried to presented this to me as a gift. Worth about 15k. That ended the meeting for me but I often wondered what those UK Politians accepted for sitting in that tent.


Kind of sums up the western desire to imposing democracy, wherever it suits them.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14984
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Kind of sums up the western desire to imposing "democracy", wherever it suits them.

Slight correction there for you...

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
Tavascarow wrote:
Gas is cleaner burning. Less particulates, virtually zero sulphur & nitrogen compounds. It produces no more or less CO2 though.


But its Fracked Gas that Ed Davy is talking about.[/quote] I know & no doubt members of his not so near family & friends have share options, but once it's out the ground it's no different to north sea, Kuwaiti or Russian gas as far as combustion is concerned. I know the potential damage it could do in extraction, especially to aquifers but it's not my call.
I am doing my best to reduce the amount of energy I use & most of the objectors to wind farms, fracked gas, nuclear & all the other alternatives should be to, their argument would carry more gravitas if they did IMHO.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3998
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 15 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Its not my call either Tav,
But i see Ed Davy`s backing of the Deinvestment of fossil fuels as hypocritical when he is in favour of fracked gas,

I believe your Green Party is opposed to fracking.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 9838

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 15 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Gas is possibly cleaner in the burn, but as has been pointed out, fracked gas has all sorts of other problems and gas from Russia has all sorts of political problems.

Whichever form of storage you choose you will have losses. The best way of getting the most out of any energy source that has to be burnt is to use it direct; even using it to make electricity means it is far less efficient. I looked up the figures for the amount of carbon dioxide produced to heat by various methods and was amazed to find that grid electricity was the worst. The only advantage with things like electric cars is that the carbon dioxide etc. is produced somewhere else so doesn't build up in the cities. Unless of course it is from a renewable energy source like solar, wind or tidal power.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 15 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

With corporate energy we are stuck in the dark ages. My sentiments entirely, as I said earlier in this thread.
Let people buy into local renewable generation & watch objections vanish & also the power hold the big six have over all of us.

Falstaff



Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 15 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

".... public and co-operative ownership of energy infrastructure under participative democratic control.....>"

I love that phraseology

Er - what does it mean exactly ?

So who is supposed to pay for the compensation to the owners ?

I'd rather not thank you - but you please be my guest, if you can afford it !

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 15 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Falstaff wrote:
".... public and co-operative ownership of energy infrastructure under participative democratic control.....>"

I love that phraseology

Er - what does it mean exactly ?

So who is supposed to pay for the compensation to the owners ?

I'd rather not thank you - but you please be my guest, if you can afford it !
Well in my humble opinion public means owned by the public ie. as it was when we where children, state owned.
Where we compensated when it was taken & sold?
Cooperative means cooperatively owned between the customers & the producers.
Participative democratic control means the customer or consumer has a say in the running of said, ie. pricing & tariff setting & types of generating.
Obviously you have that to a lesser extent as a shareholder but your few thousand quid doesn't stack up against the big investors.
Big money looks out for big money & screw the rest (& the planet it seems).
I'm assuming your last question is who compensates the big six if we take our business elsewhere?
If so I think it says more about your interests financially than the future of the planet as far as I'm concerned.
& regardless of that in business it isn't the norm to compensate one technology when it becomes obsolete.
Quite the opposite in fact the smart money leaves a long time before it becomes obsolete when its stock still has some value.
That's business.
& all said without bold lettering or overuse of rolling eyes emoticons.
Which I'm sure you don't mean it too but comes across as very condescending, if you don't mind me saying.

Falstaff



Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 15 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Firstly I am not a shareholder in any energy company, but there are such, who have paid out their own money for shares in the normal capitalist way.

It is not right or legal to remove their rights in governing the companies without fair and reasonable compensation.

So who do you suggest pays them ?

As I said I am not wanting to do that - but if you have the money, please be my guest !

Otherwise explain please your proposals ?

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 15 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I suggest no one pays them.
Business doesn't work that way.
Where the banks shareholders compensated when their stocks went from hero to virtually zero in 2008?
No of course not.
As I said earlier the smart money leaves whilst the stock still has some value.
If investors see the future is micro generation that's where they will invest.
If investors see a companies systems are creaking & about to collapse through lack of investment in infrastructure, or under investment in new technology the smart ones will move their money.
What we have at the moment (in this sector) is a group of six companies who run a whole industry like a monopoly with scant regard for their customers, the environment or I dare say their own future.
As an example & comparison, like the way IBM was behaving just before Windows came onto the scene?
They are behaving that way because no one has the money to set up a vast system like theirs in competition.
But if you let communities generate their own power, as windows did by selling their software to IBM (& everyone else) instead of building computers in competition. You destroy that monopoly & create a much more stable infrastructure which also happens to be better for the planet.
Now Windows stock is worth how much in comparison to IBM?
Where IBM shareholders compensated?

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