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Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 16 9:54 pm Post subject:
It's OK, he's told me the secret to managing the land without farmed animals now - glamping.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 16 10:47 pm Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Well the carbon has to come from somewhere, and if all they eat is grass, that must be the source. There will be some inhaled, but as that is in the form of carbon dioxide, it can't reproduce itself. If it comes from other food, that food must have absorbed carbon dioxide as it grew so I would love to find out his science on this one.

If the carbon is in the form of methane (CH4) its effects as a greenhouse gas are over thirty times more than CO2.
Same amount of carbon, different effect.
Try running a car on coal or burning petrol on an open fire.
(Don't do either, one wont work & the other will result in lack of eyebrows at the least).

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42207
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 16 11:00 pm Post subject:
But that's got nothing to do with what the bloke had said to Rob. I realize that almost everybody on the internet is set to continuous transmit and doesn't read stuff but it's still depressing.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 16 11:05 pm Post subject:

sean wrote:

But that's got nothing to do with what the bloke had said to Rob.

I realize that almost everybody on the internet is set to continuous transmit and doesn't read stuff but it's still depressing.

Thanks, I was just trying to imagine what burning petrol on an open fire would actually be like at the rate it's consumed in a car...

Rough figures in my head, 50 mpg @ 50 mph is about 1.25ml/second - would that take your eyebrows off?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 16 11:25 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

sean wrote:

But that's got nothing to do with what the bloke had said to Rob.

I realize that almost everybody on the internet is set to continuous transmit and doesn't read stuff but it's still depressing.

Stop being a pedant, you know what I mean & I expect that's your vegan friends meaning as well.
He's confusing effect with amount.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 16 11:53 pm Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

Rob R wrote:

sean wrote:

But that's got nothing to do with what the bloke had said to Rob.

I realize that almost everybody on the internet is set to continuous transmit and doesn't read stuff but it's still depressing.

Stop being a pedant, you know what I mean & I expect that's your vegan friends meaning as well.
He's confusing effect with amount.

I'm just curious, it's not pedantry, I'm genuinely interested in the effect that would have.

Mr vegan has since suggested that 56bn farmed animals are killed in slaughterhouses every year at a rate of 3,000 every second, though. Unless I'm the one missing something fundamental then his maths isn't that good, so it would be easy to see how he's come to the conclusion he did.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 12:24 am Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

Try running a car on coal or burning petrol on an open fire.
(Don't do either, one wont work & the other will result in lack of eyebrows at the least).

Wanna Bet?

Not even new technology.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 12:28 am Post subject:
Now that's pedantry

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15598

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 8:15 am Post subject:

I was actually thinking that HL; vehicles run on coal, or even wood, have been used. I was reading up on wood gas/tar derivatives for a talk we are doing and that is mentioned in connection with wood too. Stoves are run on alcohol, so petrol should be fairly similar in effect.

Trouble is Rob, I don't think that most rampant vegans have through it though. If you don't have animals to graze the land because there is no income from them, you end up with the mess your ings get without proper grazing. Some areas can't be cultivated because they are unsuitable, again your ings spring to mind, and some very steep slopes round here that are down to grass. The animals either die out or end up in a zoo, and there isn't the money to care for the land that the animals were conserving. The country would end up being a series of arable fields and market gardens interspersed with woods and scrub. Also if all farmers offered glamping, there would be oversupply. Needs a rethink?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 9:55 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Now that's pedantry

Seconded. But that car is running on coal gas generated by pyrolitic conversion not coal.
You would be closer with a stanley steamer.

Rob your vegan friend sounds like a prime example of to little information is dangerous.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 10:03 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Trouble is Rob, I don't think that most rampant vegans have through it though.

What's the difference between a 'rampant vegan' & an uneducated carnivore?
Rampant isn't a term I'd use for veganism, although I know some people who are passionate about their diet, I wouldn't use rampant to describe them anymore than I'd use rampant to describe an omnivore of the species.
You infer they don't know what they are talking about but there's enough info out there now that proves (globally) consumption of meat needs to be reduced drastically, & anyone who denies that isn't rampant but dellusional IMHO.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 10:13 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Now that's pedantry

Would you expect anything less of me?

Tavascarow wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Now that's pedantry

Seconded. But that car is running on coal gas generated by pyrolitic conversion not coal.

The conversion is a part of the car, ergo the car runs on coal.
If you had said the engine does not run on coal, then that would be correct, but in fact the first ever infernal combustion engine ran on coal dust (and was made of wood).

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 10:19 am Post subject:

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 10:27 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Trouble is Rob, I don't think that most rampant vegans have thought it though...

Isn't that pretty much the definition of rampant vegan?

I have come to the conclusion that I cannot make sense of the Vegan philosophy.
I get that they reject exploitation of animals, but I don't believe any of the chickens on this forum are exploited.

I have tried to have a reasoned discussion with some online, but they always get defensive at best, and often downright hostile.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 16 10:29 am Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Now that's pedantry

Well he says he manages a SSSI himself, so I said I'd look forward to visiting some time and he hasn't mentioned it again...

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