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appalingly generalised ill informed reporting
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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35007
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 12:14 am    Post subject: appalingly generalised ill informed reporting  Reply with quote    

what a load of meaty plum shaped objects that assumes all critters are factory farmed using unsustainable sourced feedstock and entirely missing the truth that there is good cause to associate corn syrup, over eating sugary salty industrially processed " foods" and low movement lifestyles among the biggest factors in obesity in folk who consume more calories than they use .

it takes no account that my moos eat locally grown sssi salad( while maintaining valuable wildlife habitats and flood prevention measures) and have some salad taken a short distance home for winter .

they seem to be very happy doing it and those whose time has come have a kind death and become delicious ultra healthy meals.

this ex vegan/veggie thinks the writer should gytfulals dont ask for a full translation of the acronym but it ends" live socket" and the rest is rather rude and perhaps best delivered in an easterhoos snarl.

it isnt often that a "news report" makes me go grrrr as much as this one and as i trawl the media as part of my research i am possible exposed more than most.

ps i can ignore katie hopkins which might indicate how much this article annoyed me

Last edited by dpack on Mon Feb 01, 16 12:56 am; edited 2 times in total

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Veganism seems to be 'on trend' at the moment. I guess because we're at the end of veganuary (if you're easily offended by critical analysis, look away now).

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35007
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

my opening post has been edited for extra linguistic clarity of the acronym and a few extra ranty bits

my sentiment remains the same.

as a small aside i let a militant vegan rant at me for murdering fluffy animals,then i pointed out the white fibres on the chopping block were kevlar fibre from chopping rope and chain saw pants to stuff in scaff tube and drill bit roller bars with added grease for use as part of the reinforcing for the concrete of the tunnel/bunker entrance and how such things were rather effective against a variety of cutting and drilling equipment.



a bit embarrassed is an understatement of that one's reaction.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There are so many holes in that article but I haven't got the will to live to point them all out, but it starts off on the wrong foot. The article says;

Quote:
A staggering 97 per cent of the world's soya crop is fed to livestock.


whereas the quoted source says;

Quote:
97% of the world's soymeal is used as animal feed
.

Now I don't have much time for soy, but that doesn't mean we should lie about it. The soy crop is ~80% meal, 20% oil, and the vast bulk of the oil goes for vegetable oil production, which constitutes 50% of the value. The remaining soymeal is fed to livestock.

80% x 97% = 77.6% of the crop

Cutting out (soy) vegetable oil would make the feed twice as expensive and quite a bit less viable as a feedstuff.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35007
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

that is just one small part among the whole but i recon if the article was a peer reviewed paper the reviews would find a huge number of inaccuracies and incorrect logic.

i also recon life is too short to review it thoroughly but it is a fine example of opinion's triumph over fact as the author probably got payed for it as well as had chance to state what they believe even if that belief is constructed from nonsense and is expressed as nonsense.

as it will be nowt but a liner for a virtual budgie cage very soon and it is unlikely to influence more than a few easily led folk who will be influenced by the next piece of nonsense recommending eating each others skin flakes and avoiding pencils or whatever it isnt important or dangerous but it did make me go grrrrrrrr for a lot of good reasons.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35007
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
There are so many holes in that article but I haven't got the will to live to point them all out, but it starts off on the wrong foot. The article says;

Quote:
A staggering 97 per cent of the world's soya crop is fed to livestock.


whereas the quoted source says;

Quote:
97% of the world's soymeal is used as animal feed
.

Now I don't have much time for soy, but that doesn't mean we should lie about it. The soy crop is ~80% meal, 20% oil, and the vast bulk of the oil goes for vegetable oil production, which constitutes 50% of the value. The remaining soymeal is fed to livestock.



80% x 97% = 77.6% of the crop

Cutting out (soy) vegetable oil would make the feed twice as expensive and quite a bit less viable as a feedstuff.


i wonder how much effect soy oil has on the western obesity levels ,i have not heard of it as a problem it seems corn syrup is among the best feedstock for strait on the hips as the biochemistry is very easy.

plant fats and oils are quite difficult to digest and re configure as person fat , meat and animal fats are well down the list as a starter feedstock for producing stored fat.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
as it will be nowt but a liner for a virtual budgie cage very soon and it is unlikely to influence more than a few easily led folk who will be influenced by the next piece of nonsense recommending eating each others skin flakes and avoiding pencils or whatever it isnt important or dangerous but it did make me go grrrrrrrr for a lot of good reasons.




Unfortunately I'm not so optimistic - I've had a quite a few people over the last 18 months or so giving rumblings of having listened to this whole 'cut down and carry on' bs. Unfortunately they then go on to say they're going to treat themselves to a steak when they do eat it. They've done everything the eat less message says, supporting small farms, paying more, eating less...

Apparently it cuts down on waste, but killing an animal just for the sirloin seems an awful waste to me...

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I've only just read to the end of the article, I should have known - PETA

OtleyLad



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

For some reason I had this idea that the Independent was a fairly 'serious' newspaper. But having read the online version for several weeks I can't help but come to the conclusion that its more interested in catchy headlines than informative content. This article confirms it.
If the newspaper were to vanish tomorrow would it be a loss? I don't think so.
Back to the less than perfect Guardian I suppose.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 10463

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I think the Independent and the Guardian are linked, but I too am disappointed with some of their articles of late. That is a particularly stupid one and I found inaccuracies in virtually every paragraph without even trying.

As you say Rob, feeding the waste from soya oil production makes a lot of sense. They used to feed the waste from the brewery to cows, who apparently loved it. I feed the waste from wine making to my wormery, and they seem happy enough too. I am sure vegans wouldn't be too keen to eat the remains of the soya once the oil was extracted.

It is really impossible for people to be modern vegans in the UK without importing large amounts of food. In the past, most poor people used to eat mainly vegetables and grains, with a bit of meat or cheese if they could get hold of it, but I think very few modern vegans would be keen on eating pottage which has been on the fire for weeks with just a bit taken out for meals every day and a bit added as and when it is available. No spices, even pepper, as too expensive and imported of course.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26629
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I thought PETA was discredited totally by anyone with a sense of journalistic responsibility.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35007
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

the quality and quantity of racist rants in the comments section about jasmin when she writes about the uk attitude to refugees and the history of colonialism has been notable of late.

it might indicate the nature of their intended market as being the type of dumb fash taken in by the edl and the kippers style of nonsense in the uk and trump/palin and the ayryan brotherhood over the pond.

that they are also after the peta believers to add to their advertising market(sorry "readers") and that they often use click bait articles to keep them on page longer seems to set the tone of the publication.

there is good factual research and investigative reporting available on many subjects but it is hard to find it among the msm and assorted bloggers

i recon we try very hard to be factual and logical on the couple of online publications i am involved with but it is rare that facts are the "good story" rather than" get in the way of" it

as a small big up for us lot, downsizer seems to have a very good set of peer review protocols.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 10463

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

You mean we all disagree with each other and pick up points in each others posts?

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
There are so many holes in that article but I haven't got the will to live to point them all out, but it starts off on the wrong foot. The article says;

Quote:
A staggering 97 per cent of the world's soya crop is fed to livestock.


whereas the quoted source says;

Quote:
97% of the world's soymeal is used as animal feed
.

Now I don't have much time for soy, but that doesn't mean we should lie about it. The soy crop is ~80% meal, 20% oil, and the vast bulk of the oil goes for vegetable oil production, which constitutes 50% of the value. The remaining soymeal is fed to livestock.

80% x 97% = 77.6% of the crop

Cutting out (soy) vegetable oil would make the feed twice as expensive and quite a bit less viable as a feedstuff.
I'm not commenting (or defending) the article but you have used this comparison many times before but with regards to soya which came first, the chicken or the egg?
I've read a bit about the processing of the oil & IMHO if it was only oil that was the interest, or rather the original primary interest, then there are far easier crops that only need high pressure extraction, not chemical. Sunflower & rape being two, & who's waste are also useful as feedstocks.

I get the same feeling with Soya as I do with Corn (maize) products.
That the industry is being driven by the major conglomerates like Monsanto.
Corn syrup was unheard of in my youth as was soya meal, but the industrial North American agricultural & associated industrial complex has changed that, not housewives demanding soya oil?
Especially as the majority of vegetable oils sold here in the UK aren't soya based.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35007
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 16 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
You mean we all disagree with each other and pick up points in each others posts?


yep , we usually end up with a very real picture of the subject.

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