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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45432
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri May 19, 23 12:11 am Post subject:

[quote="jema:1515944"]

tahir wrote:

Mistress Rose wrote:

one in Australia, for medium term storage up to about a day I think.

It highlights that 99% of journalism is not journalism but the repackaging of press releases by people promoting something.

100%, you have to do your own research

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45516
Location: yes

Posted: Fri May 19, 23 1:26 am Post subject:
believe nothing, follow the evidence

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28118
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Fri May 19, 23 6:40 am Post subject:

dpack wrote:

believe nothing, follow the evidence

Reminds me of why I am so pissed off with the Electric Viking guy.
Follow the evidence means what?
Generally it means the critical evaluation of information from reliable sources.
On EVs it is easy to learn enough to suss that most information is hyperbole, hit pieces or fan pieces.
It makes it tough but possible for a layman to get to the facts, it does not help to have to rely on someone who have proved themselves an idiot

Doing really deep dives is hard on many topics.
Take AI! I honestly think I could present a better course in the mechanics of AI than most people trying to show how it works on YouTube.
Largely because most people teaching it, do not fully understand it. Not that I do either, but I'm happier about admitting it.
So I guess follow the evidence has to be accepting the evidence of experts, even if you know enough to know the experts are not really that expert!
I suppose the real point is that it is hard going to be genuinely well informed in many areas and far easier just to accept the bollux the mainstream tells you and that you want to believe anyway.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15600

Posted: Fri May 19, 23 7:00 am Post subject:
I tend to check whatever facts I can. The people who write for Chemistry World are usually pretty good as if not they get hauled over the coals in the next issue by someone who really knows the technology. So they tend to be science writers rather than journalists. As far as U-tube and Wikepedia are concerned, I always check facts or say 'according to...'.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45516
Location: yes

Posted: Sun May 21, 23 8:13 am Post subject:

a brief history of superconductivity

it would be surprising if there was no work being done on grid transfer, the motor and generator tech implications are being explored

90K is within "normal" engineering limits for specialist stuff, for big scale a bit warmer would help a lot

with the correct thermal insulation, even 90K might be plausible for industrial and "domestic"stuff

instinct says grid temp needs not much colder than yer average fridge

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15600

Posted: Mon May 22, 23 6:15 am Post subject:
I know the temperatures are coming up reasonably well, but I haven't read much about it lately. 90K is above liquid nitrogen temperature, and that is quite commonly used. I used to have a liquid nitrogen tank, but used just the gas coming off for an inert atmosphere. Stores well in a Dewar flask for a week or two.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45516
Location: yes

Posted: Mon May 22, 23 8:11 am Post subject:

liquid N2 is a lot more common than He2 and boils about 77k

i can see it as useful for machines but problematic for grid transfer

from 4K to 90K did not take too long, even with almost nobody studying them

currently

there is a lot of commercial interest in S C materials for engineering and computing uses, chances are some team will find one that works at practical temps for wires even if that is not what they are trying to do

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15600

Posted: Tue May 23, 23 6:29 am Post subject:
We may see superconductors used for grid transfer, but the temperature will have to come up to somewhere near ambient. Even at normal refrigerator temperatures, hundreds of miles of wiring will take a lot of power and infrastructure to cool.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28118
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue May 23, 23 7:10 am Post subject:
There's news on LFMP batteries, basically LFP but with less lithium and added manganese. https://cnevpost.com/2022/07/12/catl-said-to-mass-produce-lithium-manganese-iron-phosphate-batteries-within-this-year/ Other links say 240 wh/kg. They figure the battery life to be good for 2 million km. Though that's plainly unscientific. Still it speaks of longer ranges and cheaper cars.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45516
Location: yes

Posted: Tue May 23, 23 8:41 am Post subject:

just for context, various car related firms are suggesting that the uk is not the place for them
at a guess any ev sold in the uk will be imported whole rather than made/assembled locally, or they will be hand made supercar type things

at the least, a local assembly operation is needed for ev's to be affordable

unless we have a serious change of policies, a near future uk with elderly cuban style "marriage" cars running on madmaxfuels seems more plausible than super efficient, cleanish and cheap ev's

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6540
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue May 23, 23 11:48 am Post subject:
The UK is much better suited for lighter cars with smaller batteries that can recharge quickly when compared with somewhere like the US. We of course have most people that should also try to get used to that idea, but a road trip the length of Glasgow to Cornwall is I think much more common here.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45516
Location: yes

Posted: Tue May 23, 23 2:34 pm Post subject:

at one time we had roll on roll off transporter wagons for cars and the people went on passenger carriages or on a different train
i dont think they lasted long, apart from the Channel Tunnel version i dont think we have any now, never seen one when travelling in the last 5 decades

we had a few for a boat load of cars to and from the docks, we might not need them until we get things sorted

------------------------

for most uk folk a real couple of hundred miles on the sort of roads we have and a fast charge if going further would be more than adequate

in some bits of the usa popping to the next town might be at least that far, so you will need more range in many places over there and some places would need a lot of range or suitable new infrastructure

most commuter journeys might be less than 200 miles a day so charging at either end would work

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28118
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed May 24, 23 6:14 am Post subject:
200 miles as a commute is insane. I was at the far end of a bell curve when I was doing 150. EVs for commuting are likely to end up being small and cheap and able to do something like 100 miles of range if that. We have to start thinking of EVs as something that will be cheap, even if they are not made in the UK, shipping is not vastly expensive.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15600

Posted: Wed May 24, 23 6:47 am Post subject:

My parents used to use the rail car transporter to go to Scotland for holiday, but think it was over 50 years ago now. The main problem was that they had to get to London to get it. Not as far as Scotland, but probably took nearly as long to get there with London traffic.

If we are looking at small, cheap commuter cars, most people will want something larger for longer distances or carrying more as well. Will reduce emissions, but not road miles or number of cars owned. Possibly one compromise size car would be better rather than one for each job.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45516
Location: yes

Posted: Wed May 24, 23 8:38 am Post subject:

im glad i did not imagine the trunk route car transporter trains

iirc at the time there was a market because there were few motorways and most domestic cars could not survive motorway or long distance driving anyway
the A and B roads were often fancy cart tracks with tarmac and traversing towns and cities with no ring roads etc was a little difficult

it never really caught on as trains were being replaced by "better" roads and cars,
tarmac got everything, to use the best aspects of both electric rail and electric road makes sense for a new situation

im not sure that rail transporting the car and persons is marketable or even makes sense, rather than just the persons, and they use a "pool" car after the long distance bit

re range, if it can do 200 miles between charges it will be fine for most uk roadmiles, they already exist in the reasonably priced category, they aint made in the uk nor will they be

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