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common land

 
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gingerwelly



Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 06 1:41 pm    Post subject: common land Reply with quote
    

does anyone here have or use thier rights on common land ?
if so do you have to "exercise" your rights on a regular basis to ensure they dont die out ?
you see I have been left a house, which was once a small holding, but over the year the land has been sold off, and the house has now 4 acres and a few sheds, but also has hill rights (100 sheep and 10 cows) .. these rights were were re-registered in 1965 (after the new act of parliment) but were never exercised .... can i still use them ?

another problem is that one farmer in the area has put 100's of sheep on the hill (he does have rights but not for that many) these sheep are left there all year , and no one says anything as noone cares ..and the guy has his fingers in a number of pies as they say ...is there anything i can do , if so what ?and where would i start?

oddballdave



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 259
Location: Telford, Shropshire
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 06 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Solicitor.

He is using the fact that no-one has complained to gain ownership through posession. You might find that he has the required twenty years. (Thirty years for crown property)

So solicitor.

Green card scheme, the first half hour is free, then decide.

HTH

Dave

Mary-Jane



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 18397
Location: The Fishing Strumpet is from Ceredigion in West Wales
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 06 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

DEFRA (who are not usually known for their helpful explanations and user friendly website) have got quite a useful overview and some related links in respect of Common Land here: https://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/issues/common/definitions.htm

If you need any further references from Halsbury's Laws let me know. I hope this helps.

gingerwelly



Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 06 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yeh think I will seek legal advise, off to see my solicitor on monday

(what a funny looking word "solicitor" is!..any way )

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 06 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

oddballdave wrote:
Solicitor.

He is using the fact that no-one has complained to gain ownership through posession. You might find that he has the required twenty years. ...


But note that mere *grazing* does not amount to 'posession' (strictly its just 'taking profits').
For 'adverse posession', one must "exclude all others" - which involves fencing and locking gates.

I'd agree that you ought to be getting proper, personal, legal advice applying to the specific rights that you are hoping to exercise.

oddballdave



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 259
Location: Telford, Shropshire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 06 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dougal wrote:
oddballdave wrote:
Solicitor.

He is using the fact that no-one has complained to gain ownership through posession. You might find that he has the required twenty years. ...


But note that mere *grazing* does not amount to 'posession' (strictly its just 'taking profits').
For 'adverse posession', one must "exclude all others" - which involves fencing and locking gates.

I'd agree that you ought to be getting proper, personal, legal advice applying to the specific rights that you are hoping to exercise.


Agree that you need to exclude others for a really successful adverse posession.

But adverse posession requires more than just fencing off a piece of land. You must demonstrate your USE of the land.

It is one of those areas of law where a legal beagle is really important.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 06 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I've got a common land issue right now, and my solicitor tells me that normal land, you can claim ownership after 10 years unchallenged occupation/use, but common land cannot, ever, be claimed. It is common, and remains so forever.

My issue is only one of access, however, so, in fairness, I confess we didn't discuss it very deeply.

Blue Peter



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 06 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

A bit off-topic, but has anyone ever tried to challenge or undo the enclosures act which removed so much common land?


Peter.

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 06 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

nickhowe wrote:
I've got a common land issue right now, and my solicitor tells me that normal land, you can claim ownership after 10 years unchallenged occupation/use, but common land cannot, ever, be claimed. It is common, and remains so forever.


I wish things were that simple.
See here: (A 2004 House of Lords Law Report)
https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/2004/14.html
at para 5
Quote:
It is well known that opportunist companies have been buying up the freehold of common land in England and Wales for the sole purpose of extracting money from local residents, who had assumed that they had an established right of vehicular access across the common to their homes as they had been obtaining access in this way without interruption since time immemorial. Public authorities too had been exacting these charges, under pressure from the Treasury
Ignore the stuff about access. That's what that case was about.

The point that I note is that one can *buy* the freehold of a common.
So, I'd be somewhat dubious of anyone telling me that it can't be gained by AP, unless they cited specific authority to that point.

While I know that I don't know about Common Land, I have reason to be sceptical about the assertion, relayed by nickhowe above.



The particular question posed by Gingerwelly is NOT, yet at least, about Adverse Possession, fascinating subject though that is, with different treatment (and timescales) for registered and unregistered land, the latter recently given a whole new twist by the European Court of Human Rights.
Its about specific rights over a specific piece of land.
For an opionion regarding that, it would be foolish to do other than consult a specialist in this specific area of law, ideally with prior knowledge of the local situation.

Mary-Jane



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 18397
Location: The Fishing Strumpet is from Ceredigion in West Wales
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 06 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dougal wrote:
...it would be foolish to do other than consult a specialist in this specific area of law, ideally with prior knowledge of the local situation.


Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45377
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 06 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

hows it going .
its even worse complicated with quarry permissions and aincient monuments on the same site ,ongoing but we are on top at the moment .
law is a useful tool .but only one of many .

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