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Jamanda
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 34920
Location: Devon
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 10 2:57 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

And as there would be no way of enforcing it I don't see how it could work.

Which link are you talking about anyway? The one from the list of banner ads from the top of the page or the one from the from page?

Which ever, the way to get on it is to PM one of the Mods.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15366
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 10 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Jamanda wrote:
And as there would be no way of enforcing it I don't see how it could work.

Enforcement by consent: the traders agree to the T&C, therefore they are bound by them.

An independent review by other members can determine a resolution in the same way that a court can. If they refuse to accept the judgment of the review, then they are in breach of contract to the guild.
Quote:
Which link are you talking about anyway? The one from the list of banner ads from the top of the page or the one from the from page?

Top right, under "About Us".
What "from page"?
Quote:
Which ever, the way to get on it is to PM one of the Mods.

Any one in particular?

Jamanda
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 34920
Location: Devon
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 10 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

See here.

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 10 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Downsizer Traders List Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:

The mechanics of it could be a private forum for each (trader/client) where they discuss the job, agree terms and sort out any differences.
If there is a dispute then independent members can be brought in to review the situation and suggest a solution.


Sounds like a great idea unfortunately implementation would be very difficult plus most such transactions don't need something like this.

Green Rosie



Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 10498
Location: Calvados, France
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 10 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Downsizer Traders List Reply with quote    

bagpuss wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:

The mechanics of it could be a private forum for each (trader/client) where they discuss the job, agree terms and sort out any differences.
If there is a dispute then independent members can be brought in to review the situation and suggest a solution.


Sounds like a great idea unfortunately implementation would be very difficult plus most such transactions don't need something like this.


To be honest, for me, that would be unworkable - if people want to book the gite for a holiday they would need to go through the website and same channels as everyone else. Having something dealt with here on DS would lead to confusion for OH and myself especially as OH never comes on DS but is involved in the gite business.

I would, however, be quite happy for anyone on DS who comes to the gite to provide a review for all to read. What about a Traders review section?

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 10 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Downsizer Traders List Reply with quote    

Green Rosie wrote:
bagpuss wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:

The mechanics of it could be a private forum for each (trader/client) where they discuss the job, agree terms and sort out any differences.
If there is a dispute then independent members can be brought in to review the situation and suggest a solution.


Sounds like a great idea unfortunately implementation would be very difficult plus most such transactions don't need something like this.


To be honest, for me, that would be unworkable - if people want to book the gite for a holiday they would need to go through the website and same channels as everyone else. Having something dealt with here on DS would lead to confusion for OH and myself especially as OH never comes on DS but is involved in the gite business.

I would, however, be quite happy for anyone on DS who comes to the gite to provide a review for all to read. What about a Traders review section?


I think trading post would be an acceptable place to place trading reviews as well as advertisements and people do say thank you to traders when they have enjoyed their products

All of Hairyloon's suggestions are very welcome unfortunately at the moment the perceived gain doesn't seem worth the implementation cost for anyone

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15366
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 12:33 am    Post subject: Re: Downsizer Traders List Reply with quote    

bagpuss wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:

The mechanics of it could be a private forum for each (trader/client) where they discuss the job, agree terms and sort out any differences.
If there is a dispute then independent members can be brought in to review the situation and suggest a solution.

Sounds like a great idea unfortunately implementation would be very difficult plus most such transactions don't need something like this.

Not sure what you are seeing as difficult, and all transactions have this to some extent: it does not have to be a complex discussion:
I want half a pig.
It will weigh about <this much>. That will be 65.
Great!

Or did you mean resolving any dispute?
In which case, no, most transactions would not need it, but in those that do, maybe a better option than court would be a good thing?

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Downsizer Traders List Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
bagpuss wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:

The mechanics of it could be a private forum for each (trader/client) where they discuss the job, agree terms and sort out any differences.
If there is a dispute then independent members can be brought in to review the situation and suggest a solution.

Sounds like a great idea unfortunately implementation would be very difficult plus most such transactions don't need something like this.

Not sure what you are seeing as difficult, and all transactions have this to some extent: it does not have to be a complex discussion:
I want half a pig.
It will weigh about <this much>. That will be 65.
Great!

Or did you mean resolving any dispute?
In which case, no, most transactions would not need it, but in those that do, maybe a better option than court would be a good thing?


A conversation like that doesn't need its own forum section, pm or email are more than adequate the technical overhead in giving such a transaction a separate forum section far outweights the benefits it offers over email or pm

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15366
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Downsizer Traders List Reply with quote    

bagpuss wrote:
A conversation like that doesn't need its own forum section, pm or email are more than adequate the technical overhead in giving such a transaction a separate forum section far outweights the benefits it offers over email or pm

It has the advantage over PM in that you can have one thread per customer, which makes it easier to keep organised. Perhaps it is possible to make an inbox work something like that... well, I know it is possible, I just don't know if it is difficult.
And the advantage over email in that you can, in the event of a problem, easily bring in an adjudicator.

As to the technical overheads, I am not sure what your problem is.
In terms of server load, it would be negligible. In terms of administration, it is not a great effort to create a sub-forum. Even with my shaky grasp of forum administration, it only takes me a few minutes.
Somebody clever, who knows how these things actually work could probably write a little script that does it automatically.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

whilst I'm more than happy to see any reviews or constructive suggestions about my business on the site, most of my transactions with DSers goes along the lines of customer: 'I'd like some plaguerats/can you make me some wellysocks', me: 'Great, hop over to my webshop and place the order', having to maintain a separate thread on a specific trading subforum is just making work from that perspective.

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Downsizer Traders List Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:

As to the technical overheads, I am not sure what your problem is.
In terms of server load, it would be negligible. In terms of administration, it is not a great effort to create a sub-forum. Even with my shaky grasp of forum administration, it only takes me a few minutes.
Somebody clever, who knows how these things actually work could probably write a little script that does it automatically.


In technical overhead here I was talking person time rather than hardware or software requirements,

how would the administrators know that a new sub forum was needed?

It might only take 2 minutes a sub forum but assuming there is at least one transaction such transaction a day thats 2 minutes the volunteer admin has to spend doing that rather than something else, if a particular trader takes off through the site it could rapidly become more than that plus they have to keep an eye out for the requests for such things to be created which is something the technical admins Jema and BA probably don't have the time to do.

I really don't see what this system offers over and above the existing trading post forum where people can both advertise and post reviews and the pm facility which enables private communication between two members

The other thing to consider is the more involved downsizer gets in mediating business between traders and members the greater the responsibility downsizer takes on for those transactions and this isn't something we are setup to do.

Gervase



Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

To be honest, there is no difference in T&Cs when dealing with someone browsing this website and with anyone else.
Everyone is given the same service and all transactions are government by the law of the land.
I'm at a loss to see why thre needs to be any special abitration or T&Cs for any transactions between people who happen to have met via this website.
I can see the place, perhaps, for Downsizer Ltd to have a caveat or disclaimer in its own T&Cs in case of anything going sour and ordure being flung at the site's owners, but that's about it.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15366
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Downsizer Traders List Reply with quote    

bagpuss wrote:
how would the administrators know that a new sub forum was needed?

It might only take 2 minutes...

Which is why I said to automate it: a button on the page runs a little script that sets up the forum and adds the members.
Quote:
The other thing to consider is the more involved downsizer gets in mediating business between traders and members the greater the responsibility downsizer takes on for those transactions and this isn't something we are setup to do.

Now there, you are right.
I have concluded that this is not the right site for the idea, but I think it is a good idea. *

There are no end of sites out there that purport to customer review sites, but they won't publish a review for fear of court proceedings.
Likewise there are no end of trade bodies that don't actually do owt when their members are scoundrels.

{*perhaps if there is admin about, they'd like to move this thread?}

bagpuss



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 10507
Location: cambridge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I can't think of review sites which actually refuse reviews.

We do also fully support members posting accurate reviews be they good or bad about traders services

The thread doesn't need moving, its a useful discussion

Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 10 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My view is also that things work well as they are.

As others have said the best basis for initial business between DS members is through whatever mechanisms the supplying party has in place - website with contact details, online shop etc.

Thereafter, as members get to know each other, discounts or bartering can be struck up informally between parties as they see fit.

We already have good reviews occurring naturally: just look out for the positive comments that are regularly made about our meat and crafts suppliers.

I concur with others and don't see that this needs formalising.
A.

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