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Why do we expect our rubbish to be collected?
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Mrs R



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 12:16 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
Dances With Cows wrote:
There's always going to be people like that, the example you provided proves that even under the current system, they still manage it. That doesn't strike me as a reason to never change? We'd just have to kick their asses more, and accept that some will always be that way, because they're nobbers. Nobberism will never be completely eradicated.


Think of it as a bell curve; the people I described are way at one end. If we shift the line on the bell curve where more people will be likely to act like gits, the likelyhood is that we get a lot more people who won't handle their own waste. As we're not going to kick their asses for not dealing with their own waste (really, ain't going to happen), we'd be left with an awful mess.


I disagree - I don't see where the evidence is that we wouldn't be kicking asses? I also don't see any evidence suggesting that more people would act in a nobberish way than already do.

Mrs R



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

robkb wrote:

And it's completely impracticable in a built-up area - my road has roughly 300 houses in it, and is one of about 20 roads that the dustcart goes to on a Thursday morning. The truck to deliver food to 6000 houses would be so big it wouldn't fit down the roads. And you'd need to wait for the delivery depending on where you are on the route - sometimes our bins get emptied at 6am, but if the route gets reversed it's more like 1pm.


I think the whole idea was to cut the lorry use - the collection mechanism should be the same as the delivery mechanism - we cart everything we need to our houses ourselves, why don't we cart everything away again, too? If you can pick up your shopping by bike, you can transport your rubbish by bike, as you've taken the food and liquid out. Bear in mind it's with anything recyclable or compostable out, and if you had something minging - seal it in a clean-on-the-outside bag?

madcat



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 1265
Location: worcester
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I get a number of van permits issued and have to request more if I run out.I get subjected to the third degree if the operatives at the tip are having a bad day or just fancy picking on somebody.Thats been the end of my free taking stuff to the tip for elderly neighbours service,I used to drop stuff off on my way shopping as I was passing that way.
Its not easy to rescue handy stuff any more either,Iam not a happy cat about that as you can imagine.

gz



Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 6620
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Its impossible here-once inside the gates, the rubbish belongs to the recycling company, despite sympathetic staff
They are under cameras 100% of the time, so can't risk their jobs

Dee J



Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 342
Location: West Devon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

"Why the heck do so many people need a whole car load of over-packaged junk every week?"

1)Because they hope it makes them feel better and confirm life is worthwhile.

2)Because to a greater or lesser extent we're all(well mostly) good obedient consumers who absorb all the advertising hype and do as we're told. We're all part of the wonderful capitalist consumerist culture - too busy with chasing the next 'must-have' to look up and notice all the wonderful things our government does in our name......

Dee

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Dances With Cows wrote:

I disagree - I don't see where the evidence is that we wouldn't be kicking asses? I also don't see any evidence suggesting that more people would act in a nobberish way than already do.


The fact that we don't kick asses for extraordinarily bad waste handling now strongly implies that we're not suddenly going to do any better than this.

As for the bell curve - there are some people who are quite bad at waste, there are some who are very bad. If we make it harder to get rid of waste, are you really saying that you see no likelyhood that more people will struggle to either deal with their refuse or will simply not choose to do so? You've got a higher opinion of your fellow human being than I have.

Last edited by cab on Tue Feb 15, 11 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

paul1963



Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 2161
Location: No longer active on the forum
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Dee J wrote:
"Why the heck do so many people need a whole car load of over-packaged junk every week?"

1)Because they hope it makes them feel better and confirm life is worthwhile.

2)Because to a greater or lesser extent we're all(well mostly) good obedient consumers who absorb all the advertising hype and do as we're told. We're all part of the wonderful capitalist consumerist culture - too busy with chasing the next 'must-have' to look up and notice all the wonderful things our government does in our name......

Dee


Absolutely, and if people don't wake up to that then we're all going to hell in a handcart before too long...

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

How much of the whole 'buying too much crap' phenomenon is due to people being able to carry so much home without it having any real inconvenience? I notice that people who are driving everywhere do seem to buy a heck of a lot more than I do per trip.

If we were all restricted to what we could actually carry, would we not be buying a lot less rubbish?

mochyn



Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24569
Location: mid-Wales
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
How much of the whole 'buying too much crap' phenomenon is due to people being able to carry so much home without it having any real inconvenience? I notice that people who are driving everywhere do seem to buy a heck of a lot more than I do per trip.

If we were all restricted to what we could actually carry, would we not be buying a lot less rubbish?


Yes.

Mrs R



Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 7202

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
Dances With Cows wrote:

I disagree - I don't see where the evidence is that we wouldn't be kicking asses? I also don't see any evidence suggesting that more people would act in a nobberish way than already do.


The fact that we don't kick asses for extraordinarily bad waste handling now strongly implies that we're not suddenly going to do any better than this.

As for the bell curve - there are some people who are quite bad at waste, there are some who are very bad. If we make it harder to get rid of waste, are you really saying that you see no likelyhood that more people will struggle to either deal with their refuse or will simply not choose to do so? You've got a higher opinion of your fellow human being than I have.


If we got off our bums to completely change the way waste is handled, why would we not divert some of the energy we used to on bin lorries on kicking ass? Why would one thing change but not another?

I think I do have a higher opinion of my fellow human beings I guess - I know few people who would actually live in a stinking midden when it came down to it, rather than add one more bag to the trip to the recycling depot. I don't think getting rid of waste would be 'harder', just different, and yes there'd be a period of switchover where people have to get used to it. As part of the new scheme, help would be given to get it right.

I suppose there's business opportunities to be had - private rubbish collectors. I don't want to get all orangepippin on you guys, but if the default was taking it to the collection point, you'd be free to choose to pay someone else like you might pay someone to clean your house or walk your dog?

paul1963



Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 2161
Location: No longer active on the forum
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
How much of the whole 'buying too much crap' phenomenon is due to people being able to carry so much home without it having any real inconvenience? I notice that people who are driving everywhere do seem to buy a heck of a lot more than I do per trip.

If we were all restricted to what we could actually carry, would we not be buying a lot less rubbish?


I buy less when I walk as I have to carry it, but wouldn't equate the car with excessive consumerism. It is simply down to greed - if people bought what they needed rather than whatever takes their fancy they would buy a whole lot less.

12Bore



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 9088
Location: Paddling in the Mersey
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:

If we were all restricted to what we could actually carry, would we not be buying a lot less rubbish?

Probably, but you'd have very little (or very small) furniture!

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

12Bore wrote:

Probably, but you'd have very little (or very small) furniture!


There are times (quite rare) when we get lifts with massive items or even get things delivered

But its amazing how much you can carry by bike with a trailer if you really must.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Dances With Cows wrote:

If we got off our bums to completely change the way waste is handled, why would we not divert some of the energy we used to on bin lorries on kicking ass? Why would one thing change but not another?

I think I do have a higher opinion of my fellow human beings I guess - I know few people who would actually live in a stinking midden when it came down to it, rather than add one more bag to the trip to the recycling depot. I don't think getting rid of waste would be 'harder', just different, and yes there'd be a period of switchover where people have to get used to it. As part of the new scheme, help would be given to get it right.

I suppose there's business opportunities to be had - private rubbish collectors. I don't want to get all orangepippin on you guys, but if the default was taking it to the collection point, you'd be free to choose to pay someone else like you might pay someone to clean your house or walk your dog?


Why would changing waste handling mean that offenders get more of a kicking? Why wouldn't that just mean that, as before, same offenders wouldn't just dump the refuse on the street or over a neighbours wall? We'd need an extraordinary change in public and legal attitudes.

Don't get me wrong; when I make an effort and fire up the anaerobic composter with bacteria, I can degrade to the point of burial nearly anything that isn't xenobiotic, and through the summer months I do (I'll be damned if I leave food waste in a council compost bin for up to a fortnight for collection when its warm and maggoty out there). But I've seen just how completely awful people not dealing with their waste is, and I've seen that at present local authorities and the police are light years away from taking that seriously.

robkb



Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 4205
Location: SE London
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 11 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
If we were all restricted to what we could actually carry, would we not be buying a lot less rubbish?


Probably not, we'd just go shopping more often .

We're making a concerted effort to only buy what we need at the moment, but a week's shopping for four people is still too much to carry.

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