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Locking threads that aren't abusive
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Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Downsizer Forum Index -> Site guidelines, Announcements, Problems and Suggestions
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cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 9:36 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Gervase wrote:
It's the way it is. If you don't like it, tough. It's happened before (and I think the banning of Silas was far more reprehensible than the recent ejection of toys from prams), and it'll happen again. It's the way of things.


Is it? Its not how I've seen things elsewhere. This seems to be a phenomenon common here and in the narrow area of fora split from River Cottage and Downsizer.

I don't believe it is unavoidable, but it seems to be problem that is inherent to this little backwater of the internet. It seems to be wired in to how these sites operate.

People get banned from web fora for repeatedly breaking rules, and generally you'll get a little bitching, whereas Downsizer gets days of whining, with the moderators saying nothing until someone snaps back at people.

Do you really think that there is no other way? You (and others) are right to hilight that its a web site, and that people should look at a wider context rather than this, but from doing so my perspective is that this phenomenon is very peculiar.

You're right that this is very reminiscent of Silas being banned. History repeating itself like this surely tells us that there is something to be resolved here, and while I have every sympathy for the Mods here (they're in an unenviable position) just hoping that this dies down and goes away won't address that problem.

Bluntly, other sites on other topics manage without this kind of thing. Why can't Downsizer and related sites?

I don't offer any solutions for any specific bans here; I wasn't party to why that happened there, I don't know. But I do know that the aftermath is the same as we've seen before; do we want this to keep happening? I'd have said, no.

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

cab wrote:


Bluntly, other sites on other topics manage without this kind of thing. Why can't Downsizer and related sites?
.


the splits happen everywhere.

the issue with DS now is the lack of open communication from the mods. I've never been on another board where moderators have refused to state who was banned and why

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

toggle wrote:

the splits happen everywhere.

the issue with DS now is the lack of open communication from the mods. I've never been on another board where moderators have refused to state who was banned and why


Splits like this? Not that I've encountered. Not anywhere.

Whether its lack of communication, whether its something about the ethos of these sites, whether its lack of clarity or consistency in moderation... I don't know. Its probably a lot of things. But I do know that at present it looks like Downsizer resolutely does not want to learn from its mistakes.

This will ultimately blow over. Do we want to just leave it at that or do we want to build a route that stops this happening in future?

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

almost everywhere I've been has had splits. more open moderaton cuts them down

we cannot determine consistency of moderation or anything else without clarity

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Why don't you buy them out Toggle, then you can run the place how you see fit?

On a rugby forum I frequent they give reasons why people are banned. The last three read.

Munter
Looney
trolling 2@

Funnily enough no one ever complains, or even questions a modding decision.

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Jonnyboy wrote:
Why don't you buy them out Toggle, then you can run the place how you see fit?






there's always one to sneer.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

It's a fair point, you have repeatedly questioned the methods and motivations of a bunch of people who created, manage and moderate a website that is free for your own use.

Why in any way should they be beholden to you, or anyone else for that matter? So, buy them out and run things as you see fit.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

toggle wrote:
almost everywhere I've been has had splits. more open moderaton cuts them down

we cannot determine consistency of moderation or anything else without clarity


So you need a constructive dialogue with the moderators and to get the reasoned input from others here.

With respect, you're going about that the wrong way.

May I suggest that you leave it a day or two, cool off, and then PM the mods to suggest the terms of such a dialogue that could occur on the forums here. I'm pretty sure they're fed up too, and I would hope that they'd welcome this. They don't want recurrences of this kind of thing any more than you do.

Mods? How about it? From where I'm sitting it looks like either that or you're facing sniping for the next however long.

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Donít take orders from you ether

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

toggle wrote:
Donít take orders from you ether


It wasn't phrased as an order, nor was it meant as an order. And it isn't obvious to me how it could be interpreted as such.

I'm trying to help you here. I agree that the response to recent events and to the ban of Silas, and indeed some other things that have happened here, do show that there is a problem. I don't know what the solution should be, but I'm certain that the way you're going at it now isn't going to find that solution.

You can either take helpful suggestions like this seriously and try to find a workable outcome, or you can continue as you are doing which will achieve nothing. Or you can let it all die down and presumably the same problems will come back.

The ball is in your court; what do you choose?

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

unless you have become prescient, you are trying to state your opinion as fact.

I don't aggree with your opinions so I won't be responding to 'advice' that is presented in such a manner.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

toggle wrote:
unless you have become prescient, you are trying to state your opinion as fact.

I don't aggree with your opinions so I won't be responding to 'advice' that is presented in such a manner.


I'm willing to stick my neck out and state that the way you're approaching this is counter productive. Your view may differ, but I'll hazard a guess that if it does, it'll be a very, very small minority view. I doubt whether anyone will agree that the way you're going about this is in any way helpful to your cause. But a minority of one can still be correct.

Nothing else in my suggestion seems in the least bit contentious.

You don't have to follow my advice of course, but there it is. But, really, whats your alternative? Are you just going to keep posting like this? Do you really think that'll achieve much? Your posts here in this discussion are getting ever more snipey. Is that going to help?

Your options have not changed. Whats it to be?

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I will not be following your 'advice'; the messages I've been recieving suggest that my actions are FAR from unsupported. Nice try at trying to present me as an isolated ranter though. Always appreciate your unsupported judgements presented as facts.

It seems my choices are to do as you say, or have you continue to snipe at me. I would choose neither option. To put it simply:

Your fallacious attempt to present me with a binary choice of seeming like a lone nutter or doing what you say has failed.

Since unsolicited advice seems to be the order of the day, I will suggest that you cease your sniping at me. And it is you who are sniping here, despite your accusations. If you don't like what I'm posting, you don't have to read it and you certainly don't have to continue this kind of snide attack on me as replies.

Gervase



Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

FWIW, I agree completely with cab

(and if that appears as his new sig I shall go nuculer!)

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41985
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 11 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

And on that startling note. Locked on the grounds that the discussion has run its course.

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