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Sheep-keeping laws in France
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hardworkinghippy



Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 8:38 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Escapedchickens, If they're in public, they'll be tagged.

Just me, that depends whether you're zero grazing or extensive. Obviously you only need a very small amount of land if you farm intensively.

You must have at least 10 breeding ewes to get grants, but don't get too excited - you'll only get about £11 a head in a "normal" region and a couple of quid more if you live in one of the "handicapped" (usually mountain) areas plus a bit more if they're on extensive pasture (Which means outside for more than x months in the year with a minimum surface of x per ewe ("x " depends on your region).

Organic or self-certified organic 6/7 month good quality lambs sell for about 130€ where we are. For the work of keeping and feeding about 25 sheep, shearing eleven, clipping feet a few times a year, tagging, dagging, vet bills, fencing and pasture management you'll earn about a thousand pounds, if you have no losses.

If you've 50 or so ewes, a good dog and a good back it's worth it as you're paying MSA, agricultural land tax and insurance anyway. That's easily manageable by two fit people, but the more animals you have, the more losses you have and urgent is urgent if there's a problem - and sheep get themselves into all sorts of trouble so you have to be around all the time.

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Thanks for the full and honest reply, Irene, even if it wasn't really what I wanted to hear "AND a strong back" rules me out It's getting harder to think of something to "do" with our land now that my back is so weak. I so wanted to "be a farmer".

boisdevie1



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3896
Location: Lancaster
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

A think a big thankyou to HWH. How would we manage without her?

hardworkinghippy



Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    



It just so happens that I'm a farmer with the brain of a management consultant. At the Agricultural college where I worked I took on the role of helping young farmers set up in business and that's how I got involved in all this stuff.

Vanessa, you'd be wise to consider something in the agricultural line because after the CMU stops for the "rich British", you'll have to pay for private health cover which may be a lot more expensive than your MSA cotisations.

Just a thought...

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I know ... which is why I'm now wracking my brains trying to work out what to do instead ... Irene, how about Ouessant sheep? I've heard they're much lighter than "normal" sheep ... mind you, that'd make the market-price per head less, too ... oooh, why can't life be simple?!!

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

In light of proposed changes to Micro-bic ... can you farm under a micro-bic?

hardworkinghippy



Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ouessant sheep are like Angora goats in that they don't attract any grants. They're easy to handle, but there's not a lot of meat on them and they have four feet and have to be wormed and transported and marked like all farm animals. The market is already very active selling them as pets or pretty lawnmowers. (There's a lovely link on my blog to a blog about Ouessants.) There could be money in breeding good stock...maybe.

Do you mean a micro-bic (that's a tax régime) or do you mean a micro-entreprise ?

Farming doesn't come under either, but you can pay the lower cotisations de solidarity to the MSA if farming will be a secondary activity. They usually work out at under 600€ a year unless your rolling in dosh. Then your principal activity covers your pension and health insurance and you have the right to sell your produce. Even hay is worth selling as you've quite a bit of land and you'll always get customers for farm produce produced ethically.

The micro-bic is a way of calculating part of your revenue separately and you can choose to use this régime (if it benefits you) if you do B&B or rent gîtes. You get very generous allowances deducted on your income before you start paying tax.

The micro-entreprise might be something to consider - totally outside farming. The law is changing right now to a new appoach for self-employed cotisations. Before, the cotisations were set and you paid them for the first few years even although you earned nothing. (As is usual in France) Now ME cotisations will be based on a percentage of your turnover.

You can also work using the cheque emploi service and you can teach English, teach people how to use computers, do caretaking, as well as all the other odd-job types of work.

I can't remember how old you both are Vannessa, but if you're still in your early 40s it would be worth registering as a ME. You'll possible pay less in cotisations, depending how much you earn and you'll then gain points towards your pension which will be with another Caisse d'assurance and not the MSA. The MSA pensions are €400 a month and you have to cotise for 40 years for that! (Obviously your pension would be pro rata.)

The most positive aspect of registering as a farmer is that if you want to provide any sort of tourist activity, and providing your turnover is no more than a third of the farm turnover, then you pay no extra cotisations. So for a few grand a year you and all your dependents are insured for a good percentage of their health cover.

It's difficult to give really good advice without knowing what you want to do. There are too many options to consider. Downsize or improve your "standing" ? Be rich or be poor ? Whatever, you have to try to choose the best way of getting yourself health cover and providing yourself and your family with the life you want.

It's always a good idea to see an accountant to discuss your plans, I know it's expensive but you'll get personal advice and it could be a good investment.

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 07 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Thank you again Irene. My head is spinning with bits of information gleaned from various places. It was anyway, before I did my back in and before "uncle Nick" moved the goal-posts I'll try to consolidate my thoughts onto "paper" (for that read "Microsoft Word" ) and go from there.

escapedchickens



Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 13
Location: France (north)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 07 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Yes, thank you HWH, you really are a mine of information!
Basically, we have decided to set up our place as an association (loi 1901), as this gives us the possibility of earning money in a similar way to a micro-entreprise, but is more flexible (ability to obtain certain subventions, etc).
In such a case, I imagine that the MSA can't ask for any cotisations of any sort, in any way; and I am assuming that an association is entitled to buy livestock, so long as it follows the rules outlined before regarding the chambre d'agriculture?
Has anyone else ever done something similar/have any advice?

dudz



Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Bretagne / France
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 11 7:10 pm    Post subject: Tagged sheep in France Reply with quote    

Just waking this thread up again.......

I have several tagged sheep. All registered with the" EDE de Bretagne".

Question is : I have one ewe that does'nt produce lambs....
Do they "have" to go to the slaughter house or can I do it for my own consumption ?
Obviously I would have to notify EDE that I have one less.

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 11 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

As I understand the regs, you may kill for your OWN consumption, but may not feed it to friends or family.

dudz



Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Bretagne / France
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 11 3:49 pm    Post subject: form Reply with quote    

So , what would I put down on the form for EDE ?
All I can find is a space for movement to another address or slaughter house.

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 11 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

That I don't know, I'm afraid, never having known anyone DO a home-slaughter.

happyhippo



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 6
Location: Limousin
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 12 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'd ask my neighbour but I feel that although he could slaughter for us he doesnt follow any rules other than those of "apero"

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33027
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 12 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

All farm animals must be tagged, even if they sleep on your sofa.



even dpack has been offered eartags

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