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Grape vines
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tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44386
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 06 7:35 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Got to do the supports in the next couple of weeks, got the grapes plus 10 odd kiwis too.

Blue Sky



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7654
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 06 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Very good. I have some Kiwis in the dining room right now. I grew them from seed and managed to overwinter the plants in the house last year so I am hoping they will survive another cold harsh winter in France now that I have brought them indoors again. Are you planning on covering yours with fleece or do you have somewhere warm to keep them throughout the colder months?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44386
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 06 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I've gone for Siberian kiwis, they're smaller fruited and hardier:

http://www.raintreenursery.com/catalog/productdetails.cfm?ProductID=FH425

There's a downloadable book on Kiwis here:

http://berrygrape.oregonstate.edu/fruitgrowing/berrycrops/kiwifruit.htm

(That's not the PDF, can't find that right now)

Blue Sky



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7654
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 06 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

So are you growing these in the Keider house?

I hope to acquire a pollytunnel before next season but no luck so far. We have peaches growing out front with no protection at all but the winters are far too cold here for most warm climate trees to survive sadly.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44386
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 06 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Simon wrote:
So are you growing these in the Keider house?


Nope, outdoors.

You sure about the trees? The main Iranian fruit growing areas pronbably have a similar climate to you; hot ummers, freezing wiinters. For most things the only real issue is when they get a late frost

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14981
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 06 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Tahir, I thought you didn't do wine - so what on earth are you going to do with them all?

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42028
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 06 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

They're nearly all weirdy hybrids, so he couldn't make decent wine from them anyway. I assume he's going to eat them. Or make raisins. Or sell 'Grape and Walnut' packs for people to have with their Stilton.

Blue Sky



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7654
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Simon wrote:
So are you growing these in the Keider house?


Nope, outdoors.

You sure about the trees? The main Iranian fruit growing areas pronbably have a similar climate to you; hot ummers, freezing wiinters. For most things the only real issue is when they get a late frost


Maybe they would survive. I had assumed (probably wrongly) that a minus 20 frost would kill off my orange trees if I leave them out all winter long. I had planned to grow them in huge terracotta pots and (eventually) convert the workshop into a conservatory to house them all year round. I heard stories of people losing citrus trees in a cold winter in England. Vines being more hardy of course.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44386
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

sean wrote:
They're nearly all weirdy hybrids, so he couldn't make decent wine from them anyway. I assume he's going to eat them. Or make raisins. Or sell 'Grape and Walnut' packs for people to have with their Stilton.


Absolutment

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44386
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Simon wrote:
I had assumed (probably wrongly) that a minus 20 frost would kill off my orange trees


Definitely, but a lot of things like peachers, apricots etc don't mind the winter cold at all, they just can't stand a late frost

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44386
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

This is the download:

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/pnw/pnw507.pdf

Marches



Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 171
Location: Nr Peak District, England
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 13 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Grape vines Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Just ordered 30 vines (all dessert) from Sunnybank nurseries http://vinenursery.netfirms.com

He's a lovely guy, an enthusiast not a commercial nursery which must be why he's so cheap, very good for advice on the phone but he never replied to my emails.

1 x Aurore
1 x Himrod seedless
1 x Perdin
1 x Phoenix
2 x Zalagyongye
1 x Birstaller Muscat
1 x Bianca
1 x Interlaken seedless
2 x Lakemont Seedless
1 x Reliance seedless
1 x Seneca
1 x Stauffer
1 x Thornton seedless
1 x Boskoops Glory
1 x Gagarin Blue
1 x Kempsey Black
1 x Rembrandt
1 x Schuyler
1 x Einsett seedless
1 x Candadice
1 x Mars Seedless
2 x Muscat Bleu
1 x New York Muscat
1 x Regent
1 x Saturn
1 x Suffolk
1 x Vanessa


How did they do Tahir? Did Kempsey Black perform well? I've just ordered Kempsey plus another table grape, Korrinka Russkaja from the new owners a few days ago.
Kempsey Black is apparently similar to Boskoop so I'am told and sounds quite good, whilst Korinka Russkaja is a hardy and seedless (but small grapes sadly).

As Sean said, they seem to be a lot of hybrids. Some hybrids such as Rondo and Seyval Blanc make a decent wine though.
Some hybrids do well in this country, ones with amurensis or riparia genes from what I can tell, labrusca hybrids seem to do better than pure vinifera as well.
I think pure vinifera is suited to the south but I think anywhere north of the wash is better with hybrids IMO.

Some good information on some hybrids can be found on this site below. The American and French hybrids are well known, but a lot were developed in the Soviet Union and are quite unknown here (fairly common in Scandinavia and the Baltic though):


http://home.online.no/~l-bentel/Sorter-eng.html

Personally I don't see myself making wine. I think half of people with a few grape vines will just be buying them for eating grapes but get sold wine or dual purpose vines by the garden centres.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44386
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 13 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Most of the labels had fallen off by the time they got to us, so we haven't a clue what's what, and because we're normally too busy with the orchard the grapes suffer deep neglect. Never really had much off any of them.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 36615
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 13 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

the lack of fruit might be good if the rootstocks are establishing themselves

Marches



Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 171
Location: Nr Peak District, England
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 13 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Most of the labels had fallen off by the time they got to us, so we haven't a clue what's what, and because we're normally too busy with the orchard the grapes suffer deep neglect. Never really had much off any of them.


Apparently grape vines tend to produce an abundance of foliage at the expense of fruit in damp climates if not managed. It might just be from the neglect I guess.

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