EU to ban neonicotinoid pesticides despite no majority vote

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EU to ban neonicotinoid pesticides despite no majority vote
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Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 9:10 am Post subject:
It's excellent news & I'm not surprised the UK where against it. Recent UK governments have always pandered to big business rather than listening to sound evidence. DDT wasn't banned for use in the UK till the very early 1980s AFAIA. Long after the rest of Europe & even after the USA! So nothing new.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 9:42 am Post subject:
The question now becomes, what will they replace them with, back to OP's?

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4586
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 9:43 am Post subject:
What do neonics target? Is there a GM crop "suitable"? If there isn't, I bet that's where the research will go.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: EU to ban neonicotinoid pesticides despite no majority v

Hairyloon wrote:

Mustang wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

Mustang wrote:

The UK voted against it.

Which idiot made that decision?

Link
A spokeswoman for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said: As the proposal currently stands we could not support an outright ban.

That article says we abstained. Why is everyone saying we voted against it?

Because the article got it wrong.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 8:38 pm Post subject:

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:

What do neonics target? Is there a GM crop "suitable"? If there isn't, I bet that's where the research will go.

The banned chemicals are quite general seed treatments, so without them we might see reduced yields or increased spraying. The main loser will be Oil Seed Rape, although maize & sugar beet also use them, but it depends how they define 'attractive to bees', as the ban only affects those plants which are [attractive].

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4586
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 8:43 pm Post subject:
Thanks. I would guess anything harvested before flowering would not be "attractive" so beets/roots in general? And wind pollinated crops of course... But then, what is the mechanism of the neonic toxicity? Would neonic-affected maize pollen drift on the breeze and still cause trouble I wonder?

ninat

Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 606
Location: Scotland

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 10:09 pm Post subject:
They are also in some dog flea treatments.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: EU to ban neonicotinoid pesticides despite no majority v

Rob R wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

That article says we abstained. Why is everyone saying we voted against it?

Because the article got it wrong.

Can we get a confirmation on the facts? Did we vote against, or did we abstain?
I want to know if I need to find someone to have a froth at.

john of wessex

Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2130

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 10:15 pm Post subject:
My MP is David Heath. It seems he wasnt a happy bunny when interviewed on TV

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 13 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: EU to ban neonicotinoid pesticides despite no majority v

Hairyloon wrote:

Rob R wrote:

Hairyloon wrote:

That article says we abstained. Why is everyone saying we voted against it?

Because the article got it wrong.

Can we get a confirmation on the facts? Did we vote against, or did we abstain?
I want to know if I need to find someone to have a froth at.

Yes, we voted 'no' to a ban this time. We have previously abstained from past votes on the subject.

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35056
Location: Devon

Posted: Wed May 01, 13 6:35 am Post subject:
"we"?

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed May 01, 13 8:01 am Post subject:
The United Kingdom.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Wed May 01, 13 12:49 pm Post subject:

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:

Thanks.

I would guess anything harvested before flowering would not be "attractive" so beets/roots in general? And wind pollinated crops of course... But then, what is the mechanism of the neonic toxicity? Would neonic-affected maize pollen drift on the breeze and still cause trouble I wonder?

Bees will take pollen from wind pollinated plants like maize.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15575

Posted: Wed May 01, 13 4:06 pm Post subject:
Rob, do you know exactly what pests neonicitonoids are supposed to prevent? Those who don't want them banned say it will mean more spraying and lower yields, while those for the ban say that changing the way things are grown will compensate.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Wed May 01, 13 4:32 pm Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Rob, do you know exactly what pests neonicitonoids are supposed to prevent? Those who don't want them banned say it will mean more spraying and lower yields, while those for the ban say that changing the way things are grown will compensate.

No, I'm not that interested in annual crops, and even less in pesticides. However if it were that easy to avoid the negative effects of pests without the pesticides I would have thought they'd be doing it already and saving on the cost of seed treatments. I suspect the truth is somewhere down the middle, yields will go down, and spraying will rise, but not to the degree that opponents of the ban suggest. It will inevitably cause food prices to rise more than they would otherwise.

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