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Knotweed as Biomass
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Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 14 12:02 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
i recon the rules might prevent what seems sensible

when it is growing tis very wet so mincing it and digesting seems possible but tis also very rot proof so it might kill the digester bugs

Something must digest it else all that has grown so far would still be with us.
I reckon it is worth the experiment... I'll put it on the list.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33081
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 14 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

the stalks will burn when dried (late autumn) and seem also to rot from that state

the roots seem indestructible

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 14 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
the roots seem indestructible

What have you tried?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33081
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 14 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

poison,burning in situ ,drowning

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 14 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
poison,burning in situ ,drowning

Drowning?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33081
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 14 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

a while in a barrel of water didnt kill it

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 14 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
a while in a barrel of water didnt kill it

Killing it off is a separate issue: it isn't going to come out of the digester alive.

OtleyLad



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 14 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My son works for a small company that specializes in eradicating knotweed. It's a very expensive business and they use potent chemicals in conjunction with mechanical removal to get rid of it (digging out and sifting soil down to a couple of metres). They also do work for Network Rail (but I'm sure they don't leave it lying around).
Some people might get a little alarmed living next to a knotweed 'plantation' -mortgage providers in particular.
But you're right about its potential in terms of growth.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 14 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

OtleyLad wrote:
Some people might get a little alarmed living next to a knotweed 'plantation'...

There is no suggestion that it should be planted, or even that existing infestations should not be poisoned, only that where there is one, here is a potentially useful means of disposing of it.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33081
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 14 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

a place to start with digesting it if it either kills normal digester bugs or refuses to ferment might be mince it and try various bacteria ,fungi,yeasts to give a "soup" ready for the methane producing bacteria

iirc part of it's toxicity is oxalic acid so either making that insoluble chemically or denaturing it by some means or reducing it by leeching might help.leeching would have issues of a lot of oxalic acid solution

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33081
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 14 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

some ingredients

this might give you some ideas as to how to overcome the problems of digesting the stuff

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8995

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 14 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

That's very interesting Dpack. Looks like it might be useful.

The acid could be neutralised by using an alkali such as bicarbonate or carbonate of soda (washing soda), or small amounts of sodium or potassium hydroxide. That should produce an oxalate which perhaps won't be as harmful to the bugs.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 14 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
The acid could be neutralised by using an alkali such as bicarbonate or carbonate of soda (washing soda), or small amounts of sodium or potassium hydroxide.

Throw in some biodiesel waste: it is mostly a mix of glycerol and hydroxide. The glycerol is known to be beneficial to the digestion already and there is no shortage of it.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 14 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Its a definite non-starter. For industrial scale production there are other plants, e.g. willow, that can be propagated, for ad-hoc small scale, any old plant will do, and can be composted using the existing municipal schemes.

Japanese knot-weed isn't particularly productive, it uses the same old photosynthesis as all the other plants. Just, unlike all the other plants, it doesn't get chomped by the myriads of insects that eat everything else (starting with my cabbages ). (A sycamore next to your house would do as much damage.)

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 14 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

oldish chris wrote:
Its a definite non-starter. For industrial scale production there are other plants, e.g. willow, that can be propagated, for ad-hoc small scale, any old plant will do, and can be composted using the existing municipal schemes.

Yes, but the point is, if you already have a patch of knotweed, then why not put it to good use?

What do those who's business it is to get rid of it do with it currently?

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