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Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 14 11:36 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Whilst I agree, in principle, to the meaning of the petition, I can't help thinking that it is a complete waste of time due to the simplistic wording - it basically says that we don't want it, and they'll be looking for evidence behind any challenge to the derogation.

The government have to weigh it up, not just against Sygenta's profits but also those of UK growers, consumers and food security, so I fear it is not sending out a robust message.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 14 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
Whilst I agree, in principle, to the meaning of the petition, I can't help thinking that it is a complete waste of time due to the simplistic wording - it basically says that we don't want it, and they'll be looking for evidence behind any challenge to the derogation.

The government have to weigh it up, not just against Sygenta's profits but also those of UK growers, consumers and food security, so I fear it is not sending out a robust message.

The proof has been available for some time as the links I've posted in the past shows, many scientific studies now show the impact neonics have on pollinators.
As to food security, a large proportion of what we eat is dependent upon wild & domestic bees as pollinators. We aren't just talking about a few species of insect that have little or no impact on the ecosystem but a group that we are completely reliant upon.
Einstein summed it up.

Quote:
“If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination … no more men!”


Einstein on bees

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 14 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hang on, you're completely mis-interpretting what I've said, you don't need to convince me - but the petition doesn't say anything new (or actually anything at all), yet Sygenta have the new report and losses they can prove if it isn't allowed. David Cameron isn't going to come on DS & look up your past posts (as far as I can see from the petition there's nothing to link this petition to any past information).

If it was that easy, doing my job wouldn't be like ****ing into the wind. It's easy to get a quick electronic sig, but what you really need to back this up is mass economic action, ie people not using treated or undisclosed crops in their daily lives, but I'm pretty certain in guessing that 99% of the people signing this will not do that. It's trying to draw together a disparate group with a short, simple description, but I think they'll see straight through that as soon as they see it.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 34450
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 14 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

some evidence

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 14 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
Hang on, you're completely mis-interpretting what I've said, you don't need to convince me - but the petition doesn't say anything new (or actually anything at all), yet Sygenta have the new report and losses they can prove if it isn't allowed. David Cameron isn't going to come on DS & look up your past posts (as far as I can see from the petition there's nothing to link this petition to any past information).

If it was that easy, doing my job wouldn't be like ****ing into the wind. It's easy to get a quick electronic sig, but what you really need to back this up is mass economic action, ie people not using treated or undisclosed crops in their daily lives, but I'm pretty certain in guessing that 99% of the people signing this will not do that. It's trying to draw together a disparate group with a short, simple description, but I think they'll see straight through that as soon as they see it.

The proof has already been submitted to the government, by individuals, concerned organisations like bug life & the soil association & by the EU as well. They are just choosing to ignore it & as always suck up to big business.
As to economic action the only sure way to avoid neonics is buy organic.
Nearly all oil seed rape, much of the maize & a fair proportion of the sugar beet grown in this country used to come from seed treated with them (pre ban).
You know how prevalent those three crops are in the national diet.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 14 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Yep, none of that is mentioned in the petition.

As for prevalance, what difference does that make? Corn fed beef is prevalent at the moment, but the alternative exists and will grow, but not if everyone makes excuses why they won't support it. The derogation is for up to 25% of OSR, not all crops.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 14 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Bee swarm on Downing street

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 14 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Buglife Exposes Misleading Claims of Swedish Oil Seed Rape Yield Loss.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 14 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Fingers crossed.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 14 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Just got this e-mail;

Quote:
Wonderful news, we’ve protected our bees! Yesterday Syngenta withdrew their controversial application to allow their banned bee-killer pesticides back on UK fields.



Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 14 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Excellent news.

Virtually Verdant



Joined: 05 Jul 2014
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 14 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

38 degrees is a wonderful organisation and I often sign their petitions. How is it that a small group of volunteers can get peoples confidence and support and deal with issues that are close to our hearts, but this cannot be done by the very people who claim to protect and support us? The same people who even after a big scandal about expenses are still ripping the country and the tax payer off......our politicians?

Small scale politics on a local level is the answer mee thinks and it's not often I agree with Russel Brand!

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 14 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

It's very easy to influence politics these days, so few voters means a single voice is so much more significant. The trouble is, of course, that mos people just don't bother answering consultations and the like (but will likely spend more than an equal amount of time complaining about it).

Virtually Verdant



Joined: 05 Jul 2014
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 14 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
It's very easy to influence politics these days, so few voters means a single voice is so much more significant. The trouble is, of course, that mos people just don't bother answering consultations and the like (but will likely spend more than an equal amount of time complaining about it).



Or voting for some 'wannabe' on X Factor. Personally I think that politics and political history should be taught in schools. For my O level history we covered 'The Battle of the Little Bighorn' and the 'Sinking of the Titanic'! What use was that!

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 10125

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 14 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

As I was one of the first group of people to get the vote at 18, we did spend some time on politics as it was in the late 1960s at school to get us ready for the big event. I can't say I would like it taught as a regular thing in school as there are far more useful things that can be taught.

After all that, and us getting our majority before some of us left school, the Education Authority (all state schools were run by them then), tried to get those going on a trip to get their parents to sign a consent form. Some confusion about who was responsible for the 18 year old students!

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