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Pumping gas...
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mark



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2186
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 11:29 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

I'd be unhappy pressuring plastic with anything flammable to anything above air pressure !

My beer barrels only work with beer cos they have a safety release valve which works by releasing the gas inside - not such a problem with CO2 or nitrogen but flammable gas!

It is dangerous enough experimenting with this stuff but can be justified I think if you have the knowledge and will spend the money and do it properly ..

But if you want to run it regularly as a domestic fuel supply you need to upgrade your standards massively ! I think it can be done but it will cost big time!

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15264
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

mark wrote:
I'd be unhappy pressuring plastic with anything flammable to anything above air pressure !

Oh, I don't know: look at fizzy pop bottles.
But seriously, the plastic barrel was just a passing thought.
Quote:
It is dangerous enough experimenting with this stuff but can be justified I think if you have the knowledge and will spend the money and do it properly ..

But if you want to run it regularly as a domestic fuel supply you need to upgrade your standards massively ! I think it can be done but it will cost big time!

Thinking it through first, experimenting second.
Only then do we need worry about the domestic supply.
But on that score, why is a bottle of gas that I have filled significantly more dangerous than the one that Calor has filled?
Even if I filled it to the same pressure, I would be filling it with a much less energetic gas.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
why is a bottle of gas that I have filled significantly more dangerous than the one that Calor has filled?


They have..

Quality control
Expertise
Knowledge
Skill
Science
Engineering
Process management
Process control

to name but a few.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34027
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
why is a bottle of gas that I have filled significantly more dangerous than the one that Calor has filled?


They have..

Quality control
Expertise
Knowledge
Skill
Science
Engineering
Process management
Process control

to name but a few.


Insurance.
A grip on reality.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44276
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nick wrote:
A grip on reality.


Why would that be necessary?

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15264
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
why is a bottle of gas that I have filled significantly more dangerous than the one that Calor has filled?


They have..

Quality control
Expertise
Knowledge
Skill
Science
Engineering
Process management
Process control

to name but a few.

Perhaps, but the bottom line is that the gas is either safely in the bottle, or it is not.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15264
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
Nick wrote:
A grip on reality.


Why would that be necessary?

Exactly so. I've never needed it before now.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Camera. You need a web connected video camera. It's absolutely essential you do this before anything else is in place and publish its address.

Either we're going to watching something duller than dull or it's going to be briefly very entertaining.

Falstaff



Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1014

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
Falstaff wrote:
Also, I see now that those boys on you tube were compressing to 10 bar for storage in LPG bottles.

Did you spot the chap filling an air bed?.


Certainly did ! He said he was using that as a receiver and pumping from there into Lpg canisters.

He was the one with the micro charcoal burner setup and catching the waste from that into that airbed.

Then showed it burning in a stove and running a VW Beetle car !

Really quite impressive - IF it was not a fake ! I suppose Scientific method would demand that the experiment be repeated to see if the results could be repeated. Seemed simple enough.



Hairyloon wrote:
Falstaff wrote:
Apart from any other risk, I'd be quite unhappy pressurising a plastic container up to 150 lbs/sq in.


Again, I wasn't planning to go that high.


I never for one moment thought you were - you were perfectly clear that this setup was a brainstorm endeavour for consideration of a prototype.

I'm sure that the possible downside of plastic would have been realised and discussed calmly in the course of considering the design options.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34027
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
vegplot wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
why is a bottle of gas that I have filled significantly more dangerous than the one that Calor has filled?


They have..

Quality control
Expertise
Knowledge
Skill
Science
Engineering
Process management
Process control

to name but a few.

Perhaps, but the bottom line is that the gas is either safely in the bottle, or it is not.


The bottom line, maybe. But what about all the working out, of getting it there. That might be where the issue lies. I agree with VP. I think you should push ahead full steam, but set up a webcam first.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21298
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Take your gas filled air bed with you...


mark



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2186
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Its perfectly safe


Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15264
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'd read that that was caused by an engine fire and sustained by a general burning of the fusilage. The fact that it was topped by a huge bag of explosive gas made it very spectacular, but didn't really contribute so much to the casualties.

Slightly surprised that nobody'sa mentioned the joys of carbon monoxide yet...

mark



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2186
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

or the hairyloon specific risks...


Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15264
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 15 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

That, I like.
Who's the artist?

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