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Solar generator / UPS / backup thingamy
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Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33825
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 15 9:11 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

That's how technologies emerge.

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8423
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

If you want to use all your locally made elec on site then get an Emma or similar & turn it into hot water.

Unreliable power is a different matter.

Just how unreliable?

A small cheap petrol genny might be a better solution.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nick wrote:
That's how technologies emerge.


Some faster than others. The basic idea and some products has been around for so long I would expect a better offering. I note in some of the reports they question whether a better technology will come to market before the Tesla batteries get established.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
If you want to use all your locally made elec on site then get an Emma or similar & turn it into hot water.

Unreliable power is a different matter.

Just how unreliable?

A small cheap petrol genny might be a better solution.


Yes, I'm currently looking at the Honda 20i.

We get lots of small power cuts, sometimes only for a few seconds but often for an hour. However, if we move somewhere more remote I expect we could have to put up with over 8 hours without power and possibly longer. That would be rare but when working from home and keeping a couple of full freezers we need something to provide power.

I did look at a smaller battery powered gennie but the run time was just too short.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33825
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Nick wrote:
That's how technologies emerge.


Some faster than others. The basic idea and some products has been around for so long I would expect a better offering. I note in some of the reports they question whether a better technology will come to market before the Tesla batteries get established.


Oh, very possibly. To get where we want to get, there will be blind alleys and competing solutions.

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8423
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 15 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:


Yes, I'm currently looking at the Honda 20i.

We get lots of small power cuts, sometimes only for a few seconds but often for an hour. However, if we move somewhere more remote I expect we could have to put up with over 8 hours without power and possibly longer. That would be rare but when working from home and keeping a couple of full freezers we need something to provide power.

I did look at a smaller battery powered gennie but the run time was just too short.


Hondas are good if expensive.

Small power cuts are not worth spending money on.

Even an hour is not an issue just have a cuppa (you do have an alternative brewing system?) & enjoy the break.

8 hours for a freezer should not affect it. If it does then it is either not cold enough to start with or the insulation has broken down. New freezers even come with a power cut rating (well our last one did) I think ours is 48 hours.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 15 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
Small power cuts are not worth spending money on.


Not on a gennnie but we may need to do something UPS wise as we've had instances where the power flicks and off from anything from a few seconds to several minutes over the course of an evening.

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8423
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 15 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Is that really a problem?

You do know that using a UPS costs lots (relative to the amount of time in use) when they are not even doing anything?

How much equipment (more importantly what do they consume) do you want to keep live during those short outages?

Graham Hyde



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 15 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote: Not on a gennnie but we may need to do something UPS wise as we've had instances where the power flicks and off from anything from a few seconds to several minutes over the course of an evening.

If you are concerned about TV's and laptops it may be best feeding these through a battery set up. Most flat screen TV's run on a low voltage (12volts) and laptops can also be battery fed.
A small low cost battery and charger could do the job. Don't put back up to 220volts, feed the equipment with 12 volts.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33825
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 15 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

For under 100 you can run a bunch of things thru a ups with power clean up, so that it copes with spikes, dirty power and outages for an hour or two.

We use them at work to protect equipment and samples routinely.

How much they cost to run and the value they bring will be situation specific.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 15 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
Is that really a problem?

You do know that using a UPS costs lots (relative to the amount of time in use) when they are not even doing anything?

How much equipment (more importantly what do they consume) do you want to keep live during those short outages?


Interesting question, I've been assured that the power cut isn't the issue it's what the rest of the house does during the power cut, e.g. energy saving bulbs dumping power into the house electrics. I've been assured a surge protector, which we've used for years anyway, is all we need to protect equipment.

The next issue is working. That'll depend on the frequency of the outages, perhaps not a problem at the moment but I get the impression things are expected to get worse.

As it's for work costs wouldn't be an issue.

As for an UPS, we'd need a pure sine wave one and they're about 200. Run time isn't great so we'd be looking for at spending 300 - 400. Then, as you say, there's there's the running costs and some people moan about noise.

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8423
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 15 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

UPS's are not for keeping work going but to allow you to save work & shut down safely.

If keeping a computer working is the issue just change to using laptops. They have a built in UPS lol.


Why are things going to get worse grid wise?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 15 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

UPSs don't just have a single use. If I'm going to spend a fair bit on one to simply cope with shutting down it may well be worth spending a bit more to be able to work during short outages.

I've been looking at laptops (which is a task in itself as I don't want all the latest bells and whistles but a simple, well built, reliable laptop and there doesn't seem many about). However, you still need power for the router to enable you to work.

As for the grid, with less being spent on maintenance, more storms expected etc, etc there will be more power cuts.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14984
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 15 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

RichardW wrote:
UPS's are not for keeping work going but to allow you to save work & shut down safely.

Or to give you time to fire up the backup generators.

I'm told the UPS system at Yahoo is quite impressive.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33825
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 15 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Some systems can't be shut down quickly, and might need an hour to do so.

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