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Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 16 10:30 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Mr vegan has now given me his source for some rather interesting figures being quoted.

56bn a year farm animals dying at a rate of 3,000 per second - at that rate I make it that they'd be all killed in less than 8 months.

By going vegan you can save up to 95 animals a year - at 7bn people on the planet that's an average of 8.42 animals per person per year.

Then there's the 10 year old chickens and 25 year old cows...

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 11140

PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The picture included of the person in full clean room gear looking at lettuces is rather worrying in the article on robot growing of lettuce. Japan really seems to have even more of a connection problem with growing food than we do in the UK. If they can't get people to work on the land, they really want to encourage it as a worthwhile career, rather than grow lettuce in sterile conditions using robots. I notice the average age of their farmers is about the same as ours; mid 60s. This often refers to the age of the farm owner/tenant, who may have their children working with them, as it does in the UK.

If the world takes on the challenge of feeding itself by going for small family farms, they are not going to just grow grain, pulses and vegetables. The best model in most places is going to be mixed. You have the animals both for slaughter and for products such as wool, eggs and leather, and use their dung to fertilise the ground. You can then more intensively grow vegetables and perhaps some grain or pulses. Pigs and chickens are fed on scraps and left overs from the harvest and will root around and clean the fallow ground. In some places of course they will be mainly growing crops such as rice, but I can't see either cereals or soya featuring highly in that model.

As for Linda Mcartneys range of vegetarian food, I always found it horrible and overpriced.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
Mr vegan has now given me his source for some rather interesting figures being quoted.

56bn a year farm animals dying at a rate of 3,000 per second - at that rate I make it that they'd be all killed in less than 8 months.

By going vegan you can save up to 95 animals a year - at 7bn people on the planet that's an average of 8.42 animals per person per year.

Then there's the 10 year old chickens and 25 year old cows...

Lets break that down & see if it's true.
How many hens get slaughtered after they have finished their laying cycle?
As I've already highlighted for every laying hen there is also a cock bird that met a very early demise.
Then we have broilers that live for six or seven weeks.
I can't find figures for numbers but according to industry stats we are eating (globally) about 10kgs chicken per person per year. If you say your average broiler is 2kg there's five lives before we start.
From Wiki.
Quote:
The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000.
I bet that doesn't include all those little male birds that only lived for a few hours. Or the 20% cull rate from the broiler industry. & is that 16 billion alive at any one time or total for year?
How many bull calves are killed annually from the dairy trade.
& the cull rate of dairy cows is forever increasing as production pressures are ramped.
56 billion sounds like a big figure but probably not.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

It's not the 56bn I'm disputing, but the fact that the figures don't add up to 3000 per second.

And if we each save 95 animals on average by going vegan, that leaves 86 animals that are not killed by humans but are somehow saved by going vegan.

LynneA



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 4893
Location: London N21
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
It's not the 56bn I'm disputing, but the fact that the figures don't add up to 3000 per second.


Maybe it includes the worms, bots & bugs that won't need treating?


dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35915
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

i wonder if the heinz" all day breakfast" in a tin is vegan/ sustainably and ethically sourced?

in the light of the reply quoted below

"Heinz:
Dear Ms Stratton
Thank you for getting in touch about Certified Sustainable Palm Oil.
Heinz is on track to convert to 100% certified sustainable palm oil by 2013.
In 2010, Heinz converted our largest global palm oil usage to segregated certified palm oil sources from a new plant in The Netherlands. As a result, Heinz began using segregated certified sustainable palm oil in manufacturing frozen potato products at our Westwick factory. Heinz also reduced our palm oil usage in North America through product reformulation to enhance product health and wellness.
In addition, Heinz is in the process of reducing our global demand for palm oil by 25% in Fiscal Year 2012 (versus the first quarter of Fiscal Year 2011). Our goal is to use palm oil in new products only when there is no technical or commercial alternative. We are also reformulating existing recipes to incorporate alternative environmentally responsible sources.
Heinz will also promote the use of palm oil from sustainable sources through our membership in the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil. This not-for-profit association brings together stakeholders including palm oil producers, palm oil processors or traders, consumer goods manufacturers, retailers, banks and investors, environmental or nature conservation non-government organizations (NGOs), and social or developmental NGOs to develop and implement global standards for sustainable palm oil.
Kind Regards
Geoff Kearsley"

"Heinz, you can do better! =0( "

as they seem to have greenwashed their palm oil supply chain(although palm oil is A unhealthy,B planted as a monoculture( often at the expense of other forest),C vile.
what about every other ingredient they use? their chemical pesticide,weedkiller and fertiliser inputs? their global transport footprint ?the product levels of salt and sugars? etc etc etc etc .?


the above is not comprehensive but is a good start might on questions to ask regarding mr vegan's business associates

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
It's not the 56bn I'm disputing, but the fact that the figures don't add up to 3000 per second.

And if we each save 95 animals on average by going vegan, that leaves 86 animals that are not killed by humans but are somehow saved by going vegan.
No.
56 billion divided by the number of seconds in a year is 1780.
56,000,000,000/52/7/24/60/60=1780.62678063.
& that's animals being slaughtered through slaughterhouses (according to their figures).
If you take the tonnage of fish killed, (over quota discards & landed) those figures aren't that unbelievable IMHO.
3000 a second? Quite feasible.
Prawns & shrimps?
I dread to think how many insects & invertebrates die producing Californian Almond milk, but I doubt bugs count when you're a vegan.

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41984
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Seriously. Step away from the computers.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Aren't we in agreement now?

Mr vegan certainly didn't think that insects mattered, as they aren't sentient, unless they were being killed to feed animals, of course, then they become more important.

Hopefully my next project will please everyone. Vegans included.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
Aren't we in agreement now?

Mr vegan certainly didn't think that insects mattered, as they aren't sentient, unless they were being killed to feed animals, of course, then they become more important.

Hopefully my next project will please everyone. Vegans included.

Let me guess you are going to cut out the middle men (sentient cuddly animal) & farm vegans instead.
They taste like pork I've been told.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I already do farm vegans...

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35915
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

many of my favourite dinners are vegan

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 16 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Quite a positive statistic;

Quote:
twice as much meat will have to be produced by 2050 to keep up with current consumption levels


If that's all I need to do it won't be a problem - there's at least twice the area of Ings going un/under grazed...

...even before factoring in the extra carrying capacity of rotational grazing.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35915
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 16 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

maybe superdoopermoos can save the planet from humans

at least we can try to assist them to do so. .

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 16 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
maybe superdoopermoos can save the planet from humans


The figures would suggest that, with a 17% increase in emissions if we replace cows with people.

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