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What's blowing my electrics?
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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38139
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 16 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

daisy chain extensions are a very bad idea ,as are cheap ones .if you must have a running lead tis best to buy or make good ones with decent parts and "fat" top quality wire.

for any high current stuff (kettles for instance ) just donít unless it is rated heavy duty just

the other thing is a long one tightly coiled up to only use part of the length will get hot ( and can wipe the magnetic strip on bank cards) which is also bad so if it has a coil reel pull out the full length.

i will plead guilty to extension lead abuse and managed to melt two using the kettle and one separately with a single hotplate ring when i was doing the kitchen. they should have either blown the lead plug fuse or tripped the main breaker but they melted instead while staying under the 13a of the fuse and not registering as a moody circuit .not on fire but definitely smelly,charred and a bit salvadore dali in shape.

imho if it is ce rated at 13a swap the fuse to a 5a and only use em for light load stuff.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15385
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 16 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:
daisy chain extensions are a very bad idea ,as are cheap ones .

Aside from risk of overloading, why so?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38139
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 16 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

even within the 13a fuse rating the cheap ones are often badly designed inside and use thin metal bits in the plug sockets which are very prone to overheating the equally low grade plastic bits.

they are often brittle which can result in cracked insulation and the cheap flex has a habit of partially breaking if bent or kinked which creates hot spots where there is a hight resistance due to low conductor diameter which can melt or burn the cheap plastic insulation on the cable.

ps some cheap ones might even have fake ce marks and wont even meet minimum specs.

GrahamH



Joined: 23 May 2015
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Long extension leads can compromise your disconnection times especially with RCD protection..

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15033
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:
wellington womble wrote:
Chez wrote:
I like problem solving electrics, it's binary.


Come and solve mine, then. I keep tripping over the bloody extension leads!

Does that kettle mean one can remotely put the kettle on!?


Ah see what you need to do there is daisy-chain more extensions until you have enough length to go around the doorframe or round the room edges.
Safety first!


I have, but they have to cross the gangway sometime, or I can't plug the oven or the washing machine in. I've no sockets in my kitchen or bedroom. They tripped, and will not untrip. You just get big fat sparks. I have unrolled the long extension leads to prevent over heating and I am being quite careful with useage. I turn everything off before I boil the kettle - if you don't it trips the other circuit anyway. My father in law (who probably did the stupid wiring in the first place) is now visiting and has helpfully Done Something to stop it tripping. Knowing him, he's probably wedged a fork in fuse gap. He did say he would have to undo it before the real electrician came. Thankfully this is on Monday, and they are going away on Friday. Personally, I'd rather the electrics tripped, but he won't listen and I don't know what he's done.

Hopefully the electrician will condem the lot and I can have it rewired properly. I will have to find some sort of excuse for FIL not to do it himself. Any ideas, anyone?!

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34274
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

your insurance company require a valid safety certificate to insure your house.

GrahamH



Joined: 23 May 2015
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The wiring here in my house is not as the UK. In the UK it would be classed as TN-C
Two wires, a live and a combined earth/neutral. Stand on a wet floor in the laundry room and touch the washing machine for a nice tingle.
Parts of the Philippines are 220v and some are 110v, both come in 2 and 3 wire systems.
Good to hear that you are aware of the dangers WW and are meaning to have these dealt with.

Last edited by GrahamH on Wed Sep 14, 16 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15385
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

wellington womble wrote:
Hopefully the electrician will condem the lot and I can have it rewired properly. I will have to find some sort of excuse for FIL not to do it himself. Any ideas, anyone?!

You can tell him that the law requires that it be done by a qualified electrician, although if he is just replacing it, then I don't think that is actually true...

If he is keen and reasonably competent, you could talk him into doing a course to get qualified, but I think most places want to give you the full two (?) year course to teach it fro scratch.
There ought to be places where you can simply be tested for competence, but I couldn't find one last I looked (though I confess I did not look hard).

GrahamH



Joined: 23 May 2015
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

HL...my last ticket was for the 16th Edition, it is now the 17th I think.
It was not an exam but was a City and Guilds one day course, ticket given upon completion.
Probably the same now....worth doing.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38139
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

wellington womble wrote:
NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:
wellington womble wrote:
Chez wrote:
I like problem solving electrics, it's binary.


Come and solve mine, then. I keep tripping over the bloody extension leads!

Does that kettle mean one can remotely put the kettle on!?


Ah see what you need to do there is daisy-chain more extensions until you have enough length to go around the doorframe or round the room edges.
Safety first!


I have, but they have to cross the gangway sometime, or I can't plug the oven or the washing machine in. I've no sockets in my kitchen or bedroom. They tripped, and will not untrip. You just get big fat sparks. I have unrolled the long extension leads to prevent over heating and I am being quite careful with useage. I turn everything off before I boil the kettle - if you don't it trips the other circuit anyway. My father in law (who probably did the stupid wiring in the first place) is now visiting and has helpfully Done Something to stop it tripping. Knowing him, he's probably wedged a fork in fuse gap. He did say he would have to undo it before the real electrician came. Thankfully this is on Monday, and they are going away on Friday. Personally, I'd rather the electrics tripped, but he won't listen and I don't know what he's done.

Hopefully the electrician will condem the lot and I can have it rewired properly. I will have to find some sort of excuse for FIL not to do it himself. Any ideas, anyone?!


GULP

nick's suggestion of blame the insurance company wanting "red tape" seems polite. the other "red tape" polite excuse should come from the spark who will not want to be charged with manslaughter (should anything go badly wrong ) if he sees it as it is and fails to make it safe.

personally i would suggest fil took his "electrical skills" and forked off.

ps without even seeing it i have just pulled the 80a supply fuse from the company side of the meter and put a danger do not use sticker over the resealed ,empty, fuse holder.

i expect the spark on monday will start his inspection with a sharp intake of breath followed by a recommendation to fit a new consumer unit and use a couple of slots on that as a temporary supply to give you lights,cooking and a place to charge power tool batteries while the rewire is done.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38139
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

iirc

the relevant regs are still 17th ed (they came in ages ago [about 1980 iirc] and still are in force as the attempt at updating them was really silly ) although there might have been a few additions to cover low voltage lighting,spike smoothing for pooters etc etc .

the competence thing is a series of exams for each section of installation and each type of testing (there are several of those). tis a few years ago but i think it took my chum a few months p t and several hundred quid to collect the full set once he had finished his c and g (which included the basic ones).ps a full set of pro quality meters is a bit under a grand. the full set includes such things as 3 phase, pv rigs,pyro cable etc etc etc. most of which are not relevant to domestic stuff.

however if one has a tame spark who is willing to trust you to have done the bits they cant easily visually inspect as well as the ones they can, any competent person can do the hands on stuff and the spark with the testing and inspection qualifications can sign off the certificates ( if they are willing to risk a ten stretch if they miss your bad mistake).

a proper inspection includes routing and support of cable,connections,loads and cable choice etc etc etc etc etc etc , most sparks will only sign off work they have done or have been involved with from the start as a mistaken pass gets a manslaughter charge in a worst case scenario.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38139
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

GrahamH wrote:
The wiring here in my house is not as the UK. In the UK it would be classed as TN-C
Two wires, a live and a combined earth/neutral. Stand on a wet floor in the laundry room and touch the washing machine for a nice tingle.
Parts of the Philippines are 220v and some are 110v, both come in 2 and 3 wire systems.
Good to hear that you are aware of the dangers WW and are meaning to have these dealt with.


i remember the photo of the supply from the pole

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38139
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

while we are on the subject of services and safety gas is a whole world of perils and similar principles apply.

if the electrics are moody chances are the gas is as well.

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:
.......... the cheap ones are often badly designed inside and use thin metal bits in the plug sockets which are very prone to overheating the equally low grade plastic bits.


Another bane of my life. I appreciate I abuse my leads - splattered with concrete, used in the rain and chucked around - but they don't make 'em like they used to. I've had 'heavy duty' extension leads go wobbly-socket within 2 weeks. Price does not seem to guarantee durability - I have found the cheapish Wickes enclosed extension leads to be the most hard wearing.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 38139
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 16 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

onemanband wrote:
dpack wrote:
.......... the cheap ones are often badly designed inside and use thin metal bits in the plug sockets which are very prone to overheating the equally low grade plastic bits.


Another bane of my life. I appreciate I abuse my leads - splattered with concrete, used in the rain and chucked around - but they don't make 'em like they used to. I've had 'heavy duty' extension leads go wobbly-socket within 2 weeks. Price does not seem to guarantee durability - I have found the cheapish Wickes enclosed extension leads to be the most hard wearing.


best ones i have ever had were 110v big kango leads with the commando plug and socket each end replaced with good quality rubber 240v parts not a standard solution but very long lasting and safe.

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