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Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 4727
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 17 10:35 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

over 10% of the overall budget seems a bit steep to me

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14822
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 17 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

onemanband wrote:
Looking at HL's link it all looks and sounds very professional...


Do you think?
My reading of it was that the plan is to raise a load of cash to pay a professional planner to help them get a grant to fix up the building and then everything will be dandy.
All seems to me to be built on blind faith and optimism.

Clearly professional planning is needed, but to my mind the way forward with any project is to take it as far as you can yourself, and have the professional address the necessary details.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14822
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 17 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:
Is aerial photography to cover monitoring over the course of the project?

My understanding is that they're basically raising money to be able put in a proper bid for lottery funding.
If it is for regular monitoring, then I would definitely say to buy a drone.

Quote:
I hope it works, if I had a spare 100 I'd chuck it in the pot.

You can join the trust for 10: https://www.kvdt.org.uk/about/ and I also hope it works, they're just not giving me confidence that it will.

That said, they have now raised the 40k they were after: https://twitter.com/@KirkstallValley

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 17 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
onemanband wrote:
Looking at HL's link it all looks and sounds very professional...


Do you think?
My reading of it was that the plan is to raise a load of cash to pay a professional planner to help them get a grant to fix up the building and then everything will be dandy.
All seems to me to be built on blind faith and optimism.


Ah, the Brexit model

Another quick search shows a 100 drone is a toy. 500-1000 might get you something half decent. 5000-10000 for professional kit.
It's one thing, say, buying some basic gardening kit for volunteers to clear some ground, it's another to spend a few hundred on a drone which may crash and burn, or break down and be unrepairable.
If you want amateur pics then you could just ask around, find someone with a toy drone.
I guess professional pics are required to sell the project to the big investors.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14822
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 17 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

onemanband wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:

All seems to me to be built on blind faith and optimism.


Ah, the Brexit model

Sounds about right. I'm hoping that someone will come along and point out what I've missed, but no joy on that so far...

Quote:
Another quick search shows a 100 drone is a toy. 500-1000 might get you something half decent. 5000-10000 for professional kit.

Could I trouble you for links to what you've found?
Quote:
It's one thing, say, buying some basic gardening kit for volunteers to clear some ground, it's another to spend a few hundred on a drone which may crash and burn...

I'm slightly confused by your comparison there; did you change tack halfway through the point? I'm prone to that, but since you've brought it up, that is the other thing that bothers me about this proposal: very limited scope for volunteers to engage. If they get the funding it will have to go to a big firm to do the work.
I'd start off with ground works which anybody can get involved with, and from that you can pick out and train teams to tackle (or at least help with) the more difficult work.

Quote:
If you want amateur pics then you could just ask around, find someone with a toy drone.
I guess professional pics are required to sell the project to the big investors.

It is not yet clear for why the aerial photography is wanted. Perhaps I am too cynical, but the flashier the presentation, the more I look at what they are hiding...
And if I was an investor, I'd be looking at cost effective use of resources: over 10% of the budget on presentation before there is anything to present doesn't seem good to me...

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 4727
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 17 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:

Quote:
If you want amateur pics then you could just ask around, find someone with a toy drone.
I guess professional pics are required to sell the project to the big investors.

It is not yet clear for why the aerial photography is wanted. Perhaps I am too cynical, but the flashier the presentation, the more I look at what they are hiding...
And if I was an investor, I'd be looking at cost effective use of resources: over 10% of the budget on presentation before there is anything to present doesn't seem good to me...


The flip side to that is if they are able to attract a very large donation/investment than the aerial photography will end up having been a drop in the plan in the long term. (Edit: just realized I combined pan and plan. Keeping it )

So it's 10% of this budget, but what's the long term plan and budget?

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14822
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 17 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Slim wrote:
So it's 10% of this budget, but what's the long term plan and budget?

As discussed earlier:
Hairyloon wrote:
get a grant to fix up the building and then everything will be dandy.

More specifically, grand (but vague) plans about sustainability research, education and community development.

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 17 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

HL. IIRC I searched 'which drone' and it was a 2017 Telegraph piece I based my generalisation on. I may have over-egged the professional kit but OTOH when you add in cameras and accessories that's probably a fair figure for the total kit being used.

Re; my change of tack.....
I'm just imagining the meeting where they go through the expenses....

"we spent 300 on shovels, rakes, wheelbarrows and gloves. And 250 on a skip"
"That's fine. What's this 600 for a drone ?"
"to take pictures"
"And this next 600 for a drone ?"
"Oh, the first one crashed and burnt"
"Hold on there's 3 lots of 600"
"Yes the second one developed an electrical problem"
"and you couldn't fix it ?"
"No.....made in China, can't get parts"
"let's see the pictures then...."
"Er well they're a bit blurry - we need a bit more practice"
"FFS why didn't you get someone in ?"

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33694
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 17 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

"We did. There was this bloke in Leeds who figured he could do anything for a tenner..."

Midlandsman



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 17 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm reading it as 'website & aerial photography' rather than just the aerial photography for a website. Is that correct?

MM

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14822
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 17 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Midlandsman wrote:
I'm reading it as 'website & aerial photography' rather than just the aerial photography for a website. Is that correct?

As far as we know...
It has been said to them that the numbers have the feel of having been plucked out of the air and they made no attempt to correct the suggestion.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14822
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 17 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

And look what happened to pop up on my Facebook feed: https://www.coptrz.com/drone-training/caa-permission-for-commercial-operation-course.html?utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=Training&utm_medium=Advert

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14822
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 17 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I posted an update some time back, but just realised I'd posted on the wrong thread.
They were knocked back on the Lottery funding and have had to go back to the drawing board.

They're now doing a survey... not a bad place to start.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33021
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 17 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

it is a survey but it is a very amateur sort of survey which may gain some basic sharp focus data and some varied soft focus data. it provides little in the way of information regarding aims and objectives identified so far or about what may be required to achieve them.

it looks like a student project rather than a professional or locals led community development scheme.

wooly is an understatement and if the lottery grant application was of a similar standard i can see why it was knocked back.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14822
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 17 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
it provides little in the way of information regarding aims and objectives identified so far or about what may be required to achieve them.


There may be a reason for that... Or maybe I'm just a cynical git?

Quote:
it looks like a student project rather than a professional or locals led community development scheme.

wooly is an understatement and if the lottery grant application was of a similar standard i can see why it was knocked back.

I think the knock back is a good thing: leaping off without a plan is rarely a good idea...

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