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Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 17 7:54 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Cars in the driveway so I pulled in at the house next to the pasture with British White cattle. Not their cattle, but they know the woman who owns them. And they are British White, not American British White.

Owner is English. She's not satisfied with AI breeding. Has her own bull / herd sire.

Left a link to this thread on Downsizer. Also left my name and e-mail. Looking forward to speaking with her.

Just another interesting day in the great Garden State of New Jersey.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32885
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 17 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    



we think you have nice moos

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 17 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Yesterday I spoke with the woman who owns the British White cattle. We had a very nice chat, and I have been invited to come see the two new calves. She sent me pictures and they are so sweet!

Gregotyn, guess what? Back in the late 1970s she was a veterinarian - in Wales!

gregotyn



Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 1392
Location: Llanfyllin area
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 17 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Whereabouts in Wales, was the cattle lady-north or south-I am in mid-east Wales, near England-6 crow flying miles.

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 17 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

We spent a couple of hours walking among the cattle in two different pastures. Francis, the herd bull, is so calm that we could go into the pasture with him, some cows, and two new calves.



There was some forefoot scuffling when we first came in, but he doesn't know me.

And yes, he has scurs.

Gregotyn, herd owner went to veterinary school in Bristol, and told me she lived in south Wales.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3976
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 17 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Scur`s,do you mean Horns?

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 17 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn, scurs are not horns. Horns are attached to the skull. Scurs are not. You can gently tug on a scur and it wobbles a bit.

British White are polled cattle. Poll is dominant to horned. So cattle with Pp genetics are polled / no horns. But even PP can have scurs because it is a different gene.

"Scurs are small horn-like structures that, in young cattle, are usually not attached to the skull. They often look like small horn buds, and can vary in shape and length. In older cattle, they can sometimes attach to the skull like a horn. Having scurs is a separate trait to being polled or having horns."

"To emphasize the difference between scurs and horns, cattle should be classified as smooth-polled, scurred-polled or horned. Remember that all smooth-polled and scurred polled cattle have at least one gene for the polled condition. However, horned cattle can never carry a polled gene."

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3976
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 17 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Yes I know British White are polled,that`s why I asked the question on seeing the horn/scur,i have seen that in cattle that have not been de-horned properly ,young cattle were the buds as you say wobble and in older cattle were the horn structure has grown and become securely attached.
Not heard about naturally occurring scurs before so will look that up,
But have bred cattle for most of my life,and at one time had polled cattle as sucklers Angus x Friesian/polled cross horned,and them crossed with horned still produced polled and their daughters again crossed with horned still produced polled,so I remain sceptical until I read up on this occurrence.

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 17 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The genetics go like this, Ty Gwyn.

Polled / no horns is dominant. Cattle with PP or Pp will not have horns

Horned cattle must only have pp genes.

This mean that Pp cattle are not horned but if two with Pp in their genome are bred together the odds are

25% PP = no horns
50% Pp = no horns
25% pp = horns

Without genetic testing you don't know if your polled cattle - cows and bulls - are PP or Pp. And Pp X Pp can produce horned offspring.

Understand that statistics being what they are odds are, well, odd. The coin is flipped anew each time.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3976
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 17 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Genetics also hold colour genes so picking the right colour Sire can raise the percentage of obtaining the preferred colour off spring,this is in Horse`s.

Looking at them percentages of No horns against horns,what stands out is where the British White derived from.

Over in the US they have American White`s which complicates the situation again.

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 17 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

A website entry with some pictures

British White Cattle

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3976
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 17 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I`d change the pregnant to 9mth 8 days, 11mths is a Horse

Check out the breed standard on this link,

http://www.britishwhitecattle.co.uk/the-society/4563203311

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 17 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Appreciate your comment, Ty Gwyn. I made the change, will see if Diane has any comment or correction.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3976
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 17 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Did you notice what was said about the head in the breed standards?

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 1700
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 17 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Yes, Ty Gwyn. In the show ring none of the cattle will have scurs. Perhaps Francis has other characteristics - his calm temperament, perhaps - that make him desirable on a home farm, even with his scurs.

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