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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45730
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 23 7:06 pm Post subject:

the folk who smelt did mention that they were only planning on using a small amount, and it was the wrong sort

tother thing ,steel has uses that only steel does best, for things like vehicles etc resins, carbon fibre and kevlar is far better than steel for many applications. ie less steel needed and a lot of old scrap cars to make into girders for the iron bru factory

back to cars, not exactly a reasonably priced car and i cannot remember the name, Â£6 million (any colour you want), hand built composite body, electric batteries and motors, think Bugatti on steroids. 0 to very, very fast rather quickly, street legal, huge and luxurious, super strong (bomb and bullet options etc) long distance and handles well at daft speeds or tight complex vectors (if iirc it topped out at quite a bit over 250mph without any problems of handling etc)
almost no steel in it

if that is scaled up for low cost mass production, vehicles will be lighter, stronger, cheaper to run and last longer than steel ones and still make a profit for the manufacturers if they get the pricing and marketing right on the refurb packages of moving bits, trim and batteries etc to get several "new" cars out of one body
it might work if they can get the glueing bit to work fast enough not to need 10000 bodyshell moulds for each piece needed to make 10000 bodies a week etc

at the mo moulding is slow and skilled, the second bit is ideal for robots and the first needs some materials science for fast cure resins (that last well)to reduce the mould and autoclave numbers bottleneck, making the fibre parts of the composite also needs to be made "affordable" in cash and impact terms
stamp pressing steel sheet is fast and low skilled, and probably with us for some time for high volume

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15690

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 23 8:07 am Post subject:

Some coal is needed in this country for some purposes, even if it is only for running steam trains and other historic steam engines. Some is also needed for steel making even using electric arc furnaces. It makes sense to use British rather than imported coal especially if it has to come from a long distance. However it has to be the right coal for the right job. Ty Gwyn knows the right sorts for these jobs and I have no idea if the Cumbrian coal is right for any of them.

As far as steel goes, there are going to continue to be a lot of uses for it. At present composites are at least, if not more, polluting long term than steel and cannot be repurposed as steel can. Iron and steel have been reused any number of times since the first iron was made, and it is quite possible that some odd bits are still knocking around incorporated in something else that are several hundred if not over 1000 years old. Composites don't have that advantage, so at present, they are not as 'green'. It is possible in the future they may be, but I can't see it as the composition is pretty well fixed for the original shape.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8667
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 23 8:39 am Post subject:
From the article and what has been discussed since the announcement a while ago, it feels that the purpose of the mine is to win local votes, and to export, for balance of exports "brownie points". Wasn't there a point made that it wasn't the right sort of coal for UK use?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4567
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 23 11:28 am Post subject:

Strange they mentioned the coking coal from this Woodhouse colliery is not satisfactory for UK steel making,as the coking coal from Haig colliery the last colliery to work in Cumbria went to Ravenscraig steel works in Scotland.

Even if the whole production is exported coking coal is still in demand in the EU,as their own production has decreased over the last few decades.

Anthracite from Aberpergwn drift mine in the Neath Valley is exported to the EU,the demand is there,they even send their own lorry`s from Germany to collect.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45730
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 23 7:51 pm Post subject:

it is not the problem that is the problem

wow, a rather unusual argument from a net-zero minister
=======================
re the coal for electric arc furnaces if i understand correctly the amounts of sulphur and other minerals in the few kilos of coal per ton of iron are critical to the process of making good bulk steel from scrap and the correct additives etc

and the stuff from this new mine is not suitable for the plant and processes they have planned(if they happen)

Last edited by dpack on Thu Nov 09, 23 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15690

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 23 8:36 am Post subject:

Thanks Ty Gwyn. I knew you could tell us.

Dpack, sadly this government, like a lot of others, thinks technology is the answer. It isn't. We need to tackle problems at source if possible. In the case of coking coal, there will still be some needed, the same with other high grade coals. It is scale, decarbonising where we can and looking at things from a sensible and scientific aspect that is needed.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45730
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 23 3:21 pm Post subject:

journos on fire

the data seems to suggest that liquid fuels with a low fp and low vp are more firey than a lump of gel in a box when either go wrong

and that liquid fuelled ones catch fire more easily

fire is a subject i have a little learning of, anything solid or gel is more likely to be local than anything liquid or gas, and it is usually less keen to ignite(unless it is very reactive with the world, see in a box if appropriate, or if it is particularly unstable)

i have gone off liquid fuelled "outdoor" stoves, several incidents with various types are stark examples of surprises with fuels and equipment

vehicles can be exciting and not always in a fun way, not full of flammable liquid is a start towards a quiet life

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15690

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 23 8:54 am Post subject:

From what I have read, there is no real danger from the battery in an electric car unless it is pierced or otherwise leaks. Newer batteries are being developed that contain solid electrolyte, so even this is going to become less likely. However, as it says, once the fire starts it is very difficult to put out and can reignite even hours or days later.

Petrol of course is more likely to ignite, but ICE cars have been around for a long time now, so various safety features have become standard. If the petrol tank or fuel line is broken the liquid and vapour are very inflammable though and the vapour in particular is difficult to contain. Diesel is usually regarded as less flammable, but as the car park fire shows, given enough provocation it can burn although it is generally rather better behaved than petrol.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45730
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 23 6:17 pm Post subject:

at the mo i am charging a new bit of "optical kit" i nor it was not on fire when plugged in, i do have dry powder just in case, the battery is in a sealed solid body made of thick aircraft grade Al, and it is charged via a usb port with a waterproof bung

i have no worries that it will get firey, or even if it does, it won't be more than mildly annoying

365Nm is quite useful for assorted things, this is not for me to renounce my domestic slut awards, i recon tis handy for rocks and "trade goods" , for playing with paint and snaps and spotting odd wee beasties in the dark

ps this one is not as daft as the scary laser, so long as i dont stare into the shiny end close up, it is very safe and useful for finding and examining things

pps i wonder what the local equivalent of scorpions is?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15690

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 23 9:01 am Post subject:
False scorpions I should think from the look of them. As far as examination is concerned different types of light from spot light to diffuse will show up most things. We had to have a couple of different ones for the microscopes we used for microelectronics as they worked well for some things and not others. No lasers!

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8667
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Fri Nov 24, 23 8:24 pm Post subject:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/stellantis/stellantis-to-convert-diesel-vans-to-electric/ Not long range yet, but this looks interesting...

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28145
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 23 8:17 am Post subject:

gz wrote:

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/stellantis/stellantis-to-convert-diesel-vans-to-electric/
Not long range yet, but this looks interesting...

I guess the mere fact that that sort of money is being touted for a conversion says that the writing is on the wall.
It seems a lot, but for a hard working van what is the diesel cost a month?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15690

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 23 5:22 pm Post subject:
It is a lot, and this will put off a lot of small businesses. Possibly small change to the large companies and possibly some medium sized delivery firms, but far too much for a small one. It is useful and I hope the scheme to change over becomes more widespread and cheaper.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45479
Location: Essex

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 23 6:04 pm Post subject:
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/news/iea-oil-gas-report-torpedoes-carbon-capture-fantasy

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28145
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 23 8:22 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/news/iea-oil-gas-report-torpedoes-carbon-capture-fantasy

Oil can never be a partner in green technologies, they won't eat their own lunch.
They are invested in trying to jump ship whilst keeping fossil fuels afloat.
So they are prone to win bids on wind farms in order to slow them down etc.

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