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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45779
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 24 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

this might seem odd but

i have never quite understood the SUV designations or their appeal to a section of the public

people carrier, yep
ute, yep
sporty, well, yep

the things sold as SUVs often fail to do the things they are sold for as well as the vehicle for the job

there are good multi purpose vehicles, few are sold as such and they are often surprising in capability

the 2CV is a fine example of sold and fit for purpose, top hat, basket of eggs, madame and the baby, live pig in the back, 30kmh across a ploughed field
that was design criteria, they are capable of far more if you don't mind hammering them back into shape:lol:

a SUV or a 2CV, how far can you get in the badlands with what you can carry and mend?

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28156
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 24 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Seen the Kia EV 3 announced yesterday
Under £30,000, over 250 miles range, sensible size,very good luggage space.
A lot of buttons as well as screens.
Frunk for the charger leads.
v2g.

Basically all the right bells and whistles at a cutting edge price. I won't say cheap as it still isn't.

It certainly ticked the boxes for me though.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15706

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 24 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Agreed Dpack. The old Ford Ranger/Hilux etc. was the perfect tool for a lot of outdoor workers. Would go virtually anywhere, off road very good with the right tyres, not too bad on road, would tow, carry etc. The newer ones are too high to reach into from the side for all but the tallest, less good off road, and too much 'pretty' stuff. They just about do their job, but not as well as the older ones. The newest ones are ridiculous in height and everything. Why anyone wants an SUV for on road is beyond me. They are no safer than an ordinary car for those inside and a great deal less safe for those outside.

One thing 2CVs aren't too good at long term is jumping 'fox holes'. Son's FIL repeatedly did that and had to have the chassis rewelded. Luckily he was in REME so no problem. Son and DIL had one with an opening top for their wedding car and a great memory I have is of them arriving at the reception (a picnic and luckily the weather was good) standing up and waving out of the top. Drove onto the grass quite happily too.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45500
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 24 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

jema wrote:
Seen the Kia EV 3 announced yesterday
Under £30,000, over 250 miles range, sensible size,very good luggage space.
A lot of buttons as well as screens.
Frunk for the charger leads.
v2g.

Basically all the right bells and whistles at a cutting edge price. I won't say cheap as it still isn't.

It certainly ticked the boxes for me though.


I looked at that, would make sense for one of our reps, enough range and boot space to make it really useful

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45779
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 24 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

am i correct in thinking that with a good 250mile range car it should be possible to take a break and fast charge for another 150 miles in an hour or so if required for eventualities or a daft long day.

if ouzed would a 250 mile range become a 350+ range as in no brakes, no acceleration and vapour driving ice cars?

even with regenerative breaking energy is lost with changes of velocity/KE, ouzing through the world at as constant a velocity as possible saves loads of waste and wear
ps it is often quicker in urban scenarios and more reliable in distance or rural ones
afafp is a little different, lots of energy use and plenty of wear and tear on mechanicals is the cost of daft fast if it has to be done

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6557
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 24 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The whole reason I went with an Ioniq is that for our larger drives to visit family we'll have 300+ miles of range (in ideal conditions, but even in less than ideal, enough to get to the fast chargers) and then we'll only need 20 minutes or so as a mid-trip bathroom and snack/meal break to charge back up to 80% of battery charge and carry on for the second leg of the journey.
Not all makes and models will be able to do that, but increasingly more of them will be able to. The key is using a very high voltage architecture in the car, to best utilize the higher powered ultra fast chargers.
From the manufacturer's promo language:
"IONIQ 5 is one of the first production vehicles with an 800V battery system allowing it to be charged at the super fast 350 kW public chargers. It charges ultra-fast up to 240 kW and is optimised for weight and space."

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28156
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 24 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I'm back playing with home automation having switched to the octopus agile tariff that tracks wholesale electric prices.

Kind of a happy coincidence as related to this thread I have noticed octopus offer free EV charging if you have v2g and let them take charge.

Unrelated to this thread, it means I'm paying attention and logged on yesterday to see our stupidly high credit balance had become -£1,750 debt

We had a meter reader round a few days ago reading our smart meter

It would appear he thought we should pay for all the electricity those pesky solar panels had exported

Octopus realised what was going on and sorted it in seconds. I am suspicious that when we called alarms went off as this guy has probably been leaving customer support screams in his wake.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15706

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 24 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

That makes sense Slim. In the UK 300 miles is usually a lot of motorway driving and some bottlenecks, particularly if going from one side of the M25, which orbits London widely, to the other. Supposed to be better these days, but still variable speed. Most of my driving is local on slower roads and not usually more than 15-20 miles, and I am cutting that back where I can. We do sometimes go out somewhere at weekends, but our overall distance is very low annually.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45779
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 24 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

800hp from 40kg

rather efficient motors, at the mo they strap such things to assorted places and also have a bonkers ice engine in the drive chain
0 to 300mph in about ten seconds, drivable with the traction control on

it was not so much the vehicle but the motors, 800hp for 40kg of motor is amazing
800hp is enough for heavy haulage, heavy like cranes and bridge sections

if the battery weighs less than ice lump and gearbox and fuel the wt of the motor/s can almost be ignored
leccy trucking is very plausible is such motors are combined with the battery tech mentioned above

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45500
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 24 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It’s the phenomenal amount of available torque too

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45779
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 24 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yep, one on each corner would be a beast, one would push a heavy haulage tractor
as the torque has a wide efficiency across the revs band the engineering to get that converted to drive at the wheels is simpler than with ice engines

a pair of them would power a fairly decent twin engine small aircraft, they tend to need1200 to 2250 depending on runway length, load etc
most are around 1500 for a decent load from ok airstrips

at the mo they are top end tech, but so was the first bronze axe

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45779
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 24 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

as to raising the profile of leccy and tarnishing the "glamour" of fossil F E is fast, good telly and surprisingly affordable for a promotional tool compared to F1

thinking back to the 800hp motors, half that size is more than enough for a good heavy duty ute or van or even a "normal "sports car

back to glamour, E sport mechanicals with super motors and this gen battery tech would make for epic long rally races

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28156
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 24 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Battery claims
24th May 2024
Not car batteries, but a step in recycling small batteries.
https://www.letsrecycle.com/news/manchester-ai-firm-develops-lithium-battery-sorter/

24th May 2024
EV batteries are outlasting cars

https://www.theenergymix.com/ev-batteries-outlive-the-cars-as-degradation-concerns-begin-to-evaporate/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1_io4xwwd1cxUIDGG6Wk0wQ6QnT91kOQ9AhLMcRpyNVvBntukSlb0xMl8_aem_AY9uvzyFzOkJtvqBAI-37kE3FCykvf8hevHvJSbWovhLZPuQrcR3fpGIvSWyAgUsR_6NjEeWpGlsMluu-mE-GY73

19th May 2024
Nitron energy more sodium batteries
https://newatlas.com/energy/natron-sodium-ion-battery-production-startt/


19th May 2024
Zinc Lignin batteries have cheap cycle life, but only lead acid power densities.
https://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=63000#:~:text=Link%C3%B6ping%20University%20researchers%20created%20a,the%20journal%20Energy%20%26%20Environmental%20Materials.
_______________
19th May 2024
GWM claims solid-state pouch batteries
https://carnewschina.com/2024/05/10/gwm-gives-details-of-solid-state-battery-and-other-news-at-agm/

These are not at EV pack level yet.

19th May 2024

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sodium-ion-battery-by-ex-Tesla-engineer-can-hit-300-mile-range-parity-with-LFP-cells-for-cheaper-EVs.838910.0.html

Claim of 300 mile sodium batteries receiving seed funding for production.
_____________
19th May 2024
https://www.electrive.com/2024/04/09/byd-to-prepare-market-launch-of-next-generation-blade-battery/
BYD releasing LFMP? batteries in August 2024. Claimed 190wh/kg density.


______________
19th May 2024
CATL announcing 205wh/kg LFP batteries
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6239.html#:~:text=At%20Auto%20China%202024%2C%20CATL,kilometers%20with%204C%20superfast%20charging.


______________
19th May 2024
First Sodium grid battery live in China.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/05/13/china-1st-large-sodium-battery-energy-storage-station-operation/
______________
19th May 2024
Tesla has appointed new 4860 head tasked with increasing production yields by the end of 2024.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-next-4680-battery-program-head/
______________
19th May 2024
Toyota are building battery production in the USA.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-supercharges-north-carolina-battery-plant-with-new-8-billion-investment/

No mention of battery chemistry.

_______________
19th May 2024

Gotion High-tech LFMP
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/24/breakthrough-ev-battery-pack-could-last-2-million-kms-or-130-years-of-average-driving/


Claim of 240wh/kg at cell level and 4000 cycle, 2 million km lifetime.

________
19th May 2024
CATL 1.5 million km LFP battery, with zero degradation over 1000 cycles.
https://www.theenergymix.com/chinas-catl-unveils-1-5m-km-ev-battery-long-duration-storage-unit/

________
19th May 2024
LM motors Semi solid-state EV production.
https://carnewschina.com/2024/04/15/im-l6-with-semi-solid-state-battery-to-launch-may-13/

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45779
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 24 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

part 3 of what would help is using composites rather than steel etc in the structure

stronger for less dead wt is good, recent resins are quicker and less bothersome than first gen

for the stresses and strains of a reasonably priced car, composites seem like a good idea and are perhaps becoming practical for mass production

days in a mould in a big autoclave is not practical, an hour or two along a production line at several a minute is

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45779
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 24 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

robots are ideal for laying out composites, with "rapid cure" resins most metal is redundant wt in a well-thought-out shell and running gear

the plastic pig was exactly that, the principle of moulding rather than pressing, or even casting some parts, is valid

not ideal for carmakers, but if batteries can last a very long time so can the "bulk" parts of the structure
sell a new set of bearings or "springs" etc is good use of energy long term vs sell them a new one cos that wore out which is more "detroit money"

a good reasonably priced car should have longevity and low cost "consumables"
it could be done, but a functional business model evades me at the mo

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