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cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

There are also very different styles and skills involved in picking, hunting, gathering, fishing, etc. There are overlaps (getting winkles from pools, for example, is more like foraging than fishing!) but I think it's handy to have the areas covered seperately.

deerstalker



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

That's why I set up the topics that way (and also to try to leave the fox hunting debate behind).

deerstalker



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

jonnyboy wrote:
I think that rifle shooting is a more specialist sport, the opportunities to indulge in it are far less, the costs are certainly higher and the quarry is in far less numbers.


A high powered small bore rifle (eg .17 HMR or .22 WMR) is without doubt the most effective method of shooting rabbits I've ever come across.

It is certainly a good deal cheaper than using a shotgun, all cost considered.

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Well, that wraps several issues together. A 12 bore is god only at close range. A luvly big blunderbuss. The .22LR is a nice varminter but suffers from excess drop due to low power. The plus point is low noise, (a major plus), but the down side is the arc of the bulet and rapid drop. You can zero for a given range, but the rifle will not hold true to that impact point if you add or subtract even 30 yards. The .17HMR is a phenomenal weapon on small mammals. Very small and light. This works for it and against. Extreme accuracy at amazing ranges, 250 yds +, ....*in ideal conditions*. On a windy day, I leave it at home and take the .22. The damage a .17HMR does is remarkable too. The bullet has a polymer tip, so fragments on impact. What the sky marshalls in the USA use. It stays in the target, so no ricochets, no risk to others. Miss the target and the round turns to dust when it hits the next nearest object. Shoot a rabbit on an ideal day at 250 yards, and the entry point is invisible, but the other half of the head is missing. So choices!.....

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I think that with my shotty, I miss more, but then I'm not good with it, always been a rifle shooter. So the 12 guage costs more. The .22 and .17HMR always kill first time, so overall costs are lower.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Madman wrote:
I think that with my shotty, I miss more, but then I'm not good with it, always been a rifle shooter. So the 12 guage costs more. The .22 and .17HMR always kill first time, so overall costs are lower.


Fair enough, but my success rate with a shotgun is pretty high, then again the actual amount I bag may be lower in total because I will never shoot at extreme range.

But I still consider the shotgun a more practical weapon, You can shoot moving quarry for a start!

On top of that what about the legal issues and the practicality of rifle ownership?

Plus the risks are higher - You have to be far more careful about how and where you shoot. Over here a five year old was shot in the head in a school playground. Police are blaming a stray .22 round that may have been fired from a mile away. Now I know that this is an isolated incident but it's worth considering.

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

JB, taking just your final comment, a .22 rifle fired from a mile away....Was the guy pointing vertically into the sky in order to get the incredibly unlucky headshot?.....Sherlock Holmes would say that te most obvious thing is the most likely thing. I couldn't head shot a kid at 300 yards with my .22 accurately, so I can't really contribute to your thread.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Madman wrote:
JB, taking just your final comment, a .22 rifle fired from a mile away....Was the guy pointing vertically into the sky in order to get the incredibly unlucky headshot?.....Sherlock Holmes would say that te most obvious thing is the most likely thing. I couldn't head shot a kid at 300 yards with my .22 accurately, so I can't really contribute to your thread.


I'm not saying it was deliberate, but a .22 does have a very high MV and can be fatal over a suprisingly long range. I'm just trying to make a point over the potential risk involved. (Actually I have a feeling of deja vu here)

This is the news report. https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4478143.stm

Edit: that's a report from the time of the incident, thankfully the boy has recovered from two operations and has been moved to a normal ward, although it will be a while before he leaves hospital.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Sorry, I've worded my earlier post incorrectly. It was never considered absolute that the shot was fired from a mile away, but when the police were initially interviewed they said that it could have been a stray bullet fired from anywhere up to a mile away.

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 05 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

As Cab once said of my comments, summat like "Argumentam Absurdicam"!....But he may have got it from Harry Potter!

deerstalker



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 05 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I use a .22 magnum rimfire for rabbits. I now use full metal jacket rounds instead of hollow points because the damage is terrible.

Any firearm is dangerous. The point is, you understand the potential dangers and limitations of your weapon and behave accordingly.

There is no such thing as a dangerous firearm - just dangerous people!

ohouston



Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 05 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Oh well, at the risk of wading into a debate topic whos trajectory is more like my uncles .177 BSA than Deerstalkers shiny .22 Magnum Bunny Widowmaker...

Still here goes. Johnny Boy is right…(is that a stage name btw?)… for a smallholder an air gun can be easier to contemplate than a proper rifle, especially if your 1/4 acre allotment is in the middle of Milton Keynes pedestrians precinct. BUT, a proper rifle puts hairs on your chest and err, well is proper. AND unless you’re a raving loony or previously held up building societies with that BSA of your uncles, no excuse not to get an FAC and buy that .22LR lazy bones.

Whats a cheap but perfectly good .22LR cost, well, about £20. Yes £20, and it will work perfectly. Admittedly, it may have an amateurish love heart and “Debbie” engraved on the stock, but that adds to the character, go on, you’ll love it.

AND you don’t even have to bother with a telescopic sight, open sights are great. (Free tip folks, cheap telescopic are a waste of time, throw them in the bin. No, I insist. In the bin. Go on. Don’t care, £120 is cheap).

As for the type of ammo, subsonics are fine, but yes after 70m the drop does get annoying difficult to predict, my advice, use High Velocities, the bang is like a cap gun anyway. As for the mile range waffle, yes yes, but stupid people need not apply.

My secret feelings are this [ahh here we go you all say] - don’t use an air rifle on live animals. They are for practicing with and shooting coke cans off the bonnet of the wifes Fiesta, not terrorising bunnies. The wounding rate is just too high. Poor bunnies. On the other hand, you can go over the top. Deerstalker and his chrome plated jacketed magnums? If I was a bunny, I’d be honoured sir. Honoured.

Ps, if you are going to write back and tell me how you and your gold plated air rifle are the best thing since sliced pankakes, don’t bother. Don’t want to debate any more. Next subject. Ha ha.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44652
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 05 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

ohouston wrote:
Next subject. Ha ha.


Start one

deerstalker



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 05 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

ohouston wrote:

Don’t want to debate any more. Next subject. Ha ha.


Course you do!

Most entertaining couple of posts I've read on this site.

Lloyd



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 2699

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 05 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

ohouston wrote:
Oh well, at the risk of wading into a debate topic whos trajectory is more like my uncles .177 BSA than Deerstalkers shiny .22 Magnum Bunny Widowmaker...

Still here goes. Johnny Boy is right…(is that a stage name btw?)… for a smallholder an air gun can be easier to contemplate than a proper rifle, especially if your 1/4 acre allotment is in the middle of Milton Keynes pedestrians precinct. BUT, a proper rifle puts hairs on your chest and err, well is proper. AND unless you’re a raving loony or previously held up building societies with that BSA of your uncles, no excuse not to get an FAC and buy that .22LR lazy bones.

Whats a cheap but perfectly good .22LR cost, well, about £20. Yes £20, and it will work perfectly. Admittedly, it may have an amateurish love heart and “Debbie” engraved on the stock, but that adds to the character, go on, you’ll love it.

AND you don’t even have to bother with a telescopic sight, open sights are great. (Free tip folks, cheap telescopic are a waste of time, throw them in the bin. No, I insist. In the bin. Go on. Don’t care, £120 is cheap).

As for the type of ammo, subsonics are fine, but yes after 70m the drop does get annoying difficult to predict, my advice, use High Velocities, the bang is like a cap gun anyway. As for the mile range waffle, yes yes, but stupid people need not apply.

My secret feelings are this [ahh here we go you all say] - don’t use an air rifle on live animals. They are for practicing with and shooting coke cans off the bonnet of the wifes Fiesta, not terrorising bunnies. The wounding rate is just too high. Poor bunnies. On the other hand, you can go over the top. Deerstalker and his chrome plated jacketed magnums? If I was a bunny, I’d be honoured sir. Honoured.

Ps, if you are going to write back and tell me how you and your gold plated air rifle are the best thing since sliced pankakes, don’t bother. Don’t want to debate any more. Next subject. .


Nicely put, Ohouston. I think we'd all pretty much go along with that.

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