elderberry destemmer ?

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elderberry destemmer ?
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Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 08 1:57 pm Post subject:

marigold wrote:

I just use my fingers - they turn a disgusting colour and stay that way for several days, but it's MUCH easier than faffing around with a fork

Medical gloves, very useful in these situations.

gil
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18409

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 08 2:37 pm Post subject:

James wrote:

How much is a lot? I've got an idea for a grape crusher/ destemer (I've planted a lot of grapes...) which would probably work if you have a lot of elderberries

About 180lb of berries off the stem

Went

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 6968

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 08 3:12 pm Post subject:
Could you use something like an adapted or specially made bilberry comb - might get most of the stems off and then they could be picked over to remove the rest?

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 08 3:57 pm Post subject:

gil wrote:

James wrote:

How much is a lot? I've got an idea for a grape crusher/ destemer (I've planted a lot of grapes...) which would probably work if you have a lot of elderberries

About 180lb of berries off the stem

My idea is similar to the pulp-master but instead of cutting, it beats the fruit of the stems, creating a soft fruit pulp with stems that can be 'sieved' off.

Its a bit involved, but you'd have it for ever, and it'd take a few minutes to de-stem all your fruit.

So here's the idea: get a length (maybe 2ft?) of threaded steel rod, on one end screw a bolt so it sits about 1cm up the thread, super glue into position, let it set. Get a 1" by 8" length of mild steel, drill a hole in the centre large enough to pass the threaded rod through and two smaller holes to put little screws in. Put the steel T-piece onto the rod beneath the glued in place bolt, then bolt into place with another bolt at the very end of the thread. Then screw an 8" length of broom handle to the steel T-piece. Rap the whole lot in loads of layers of fibreglass sheet and resin, including the threaded stem.
To use it, you'll need to drill a hole in a wooden board large enough to pass the threaded rod through. Attach the rod to a drill , fill a bucket with berries on stems, put the board (with drill and fruit basher attached) over the bucket and turn drill on low. This should beat the berries off the stems and leave the stems reasonable in tact. Now get an off-cut of 3/4" chicken mesh and pass the berry/ stem mix through. The berry mush will pass through, the stems will remain on the mesh.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 08 4:07 pm Post subject:
Ta dahhh! And in our conversation last night Gil, who did we think might come up with a mechanical solution? James you're a marvel. Course it might not work but you are still a marvel. Fingers and gloves for me however.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 08 4:16 pm Post subject:
Your mother is a hampster and your father smells of elderberries.

gil
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18409

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 08 4:19 pm Post subject:

Cathryn wrote:

James you're a marvel.

Course it might not work but you are still a marvel.

Agreed.

@ James : Sounds interesting, and worth a try in some form. Been reading description of your device - what is purpose of fibreglass sheet/resin ? As some kind of screen to stop pulp flying about ?

Have you destemmed elderberries ? Lower parts of stalks are so delicate they break off even with a fork or by hand. I think they would easily pass through 3/4" mesh, so that would need to be smaller gauge. But if finer then it might clag up with both fruit and stalks.

A press would be OK, but I'd prefer to have skins as well as juice, for extracting flavour during pulp fermentation.

I have no idea how larger-scale producers of elderberry wine do this stage.
I had been inclining towards the thought that they make the wine using dried fruit, not fresh, so that someone else has the bother of destemming and drying the fruit.
However, Cairn O'Mohr have an elderberry orchard, so must have to deal with their own fresh fruit. Maybe they do just use a press.

But you can see now why I have been demented with a fork

mochyn

Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 08 7:19 am Post subject:
I've got an Italian gadget for making passata. Came from Ascott's and it's called a Passatuto. I think it coul be good: I'll have a try with some berries later. It squashes the fruit up, spitting out yum one side and seeds/skins the other.

James

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2866
Location: York

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 08 9:10 am Post subject:

gil wrote:

Cathryn wrote:

James you're a marvel.

Course it might not work but you are still a marvel.

Agreed.

gil wrote:

James : Sounds interesting, and worth a try in some form. Been reading description of your device - what is purpose of fibreglass sheet/resin ? As some kind of screen to stop pulp flying about ?

The fibreglass resin has three purposes. Firstly, to make a smooth surface that can easily be cleaned and sterilised, secondly to give strength to the whole beater thing (without it the metal blade & wooden broom handle would loosen an spin independently of the rod). Thirdly, to present a smooth surface to the fruit which will minimise the risk of cutting and maximise the chance of squashing.

gil wrote:

Have you destemmed elderberries ? Lower parts of stalks are so delicate they break off even with a fork or by hand. I think they would easily pass through 3/4" mesh, so that would need to be smaller gauge. But if finer then it might clag up with both fruit and stalks.

Yes, I’ve de-stemmed elderberries, and you’re right the final stems just before the fruit are very easily broken.. I think in reality we’ll only know if it works (or to what degree it works…) when someone tries it.
To be honest, I’ve never been to worried about the little stems right next to the fruit. However what I’ve previously noticed is that the ripe berries will come off easily, and the slightly under-ripe often hold on to the stem and bring a little stem with them. I’d guess that the speed of the drill would be critical- you’d almost want to just ‘tickle’ them off the stems.

gil wrote:

A press would be OK, but I'd prefer to have skins as well as juice, for extracting flavour during pulp fermentation.

Yes, you’ve got to ferment with the skins to extract the full colour & flavour. Its were most of the tannin is.

gil wrote:

can see now why I have been demented with a fork

Indeed I can

marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 08 9:18 am Post subject:
I've been wondering of the berries would bash off easily if you froze the heads? Freezing would add a lot to overheads though...

Tristan

Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 392
Location: North Gloucestershire

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 08 11:37 am Post subject:
The drill powered method sounds possible, but you'll need a drill with a lot of torque. Personally I'd open freeze them, put the whole lot in a big bag and roll them around a table top. if you then shake the bag carefully most of the stem will rise to the top and the fine bits can then be sieved out.

kevin.vinke

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1304
Location: Niedersachsen, Germany

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 08 11:53 am Post subject:

Tristan wrote:

The drill powered method sounds possible, but you'll need a drill with a lot of torque. Personally I'd open freeze them, put the whole lot in a big bag and roll them around a table top. if you then shake the bag carefully most of the stem will rise to the top and the fine bits can then be sieved out.

I did something similar last night, left them in the carrier bag and just stuck my fingers in and stirred around ended up with most of the stalks rising to the top clean of berries except the few green or not quite ready ones. 3.6kg in about 30 mins.

KrisWW

Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 51
Location: Southern most South Yorkshire

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 08 4:46 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Personally I'd open freeze them

I'm going to try this tomorrow - my little tree hiding behind the greenhouse is absolutely groaning with fruit, in spite of being raided for elderflower cordial and wine (that's still fermenting - how long does that stuff take to finish?)

rivergirl

Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 30

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 08 6:33 pm Post subject:
I do stick mine in the freezer first it works for me

jamila169

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 218
Location: North Derbyshire

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 08 10:12 pm Post subject:

I got a big bagful off my mum's garden the other night and just shook them into a sink full of cold water, then ficked the rest off, all the good berries sank and the dried up manky and under ripe ones floated , along with the little stems , a spider and a chuggypig! I fished the yuck out with a sieve then let the water out (plughole has a strainer) there were only odd bits of stem left. so i've put them in the freezer until I can get some blackberries(got to get rid of the lurgy first)

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