Home Page
   Articles
       links
About Us    
Traders        
Recipes            
Latest Articles
Does not hunted environment even out?
Page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Downsizer Forum Index -> Conservation and Environment
Author 
 Message
Mutton



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 1508

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 12:33 pm    Post subject: Does not hunted environment even out? Reply with quote
    

Just curious.

In simple terms you have people hunting foxes and other predators.
You have people hunting rabbits and other nuisance herbivores that compete with sheep (and giving them myxamitosis to bump them off).

So, in very simple terms, if you stopped hunting/interfering with all of these, would it balance out? If so how long would it take?

As in a rabbit population kept roughly constant by a fox population that is roughly constant, without people joining in.

Has this been tried anywhere?

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

No environment ever 'evens out', you get population fluctuations between predators and prey. But, yes, if you leave well alone a kind of 'balance' around a certain point will occur. Trouble is we don't and have not left well alone; indeed, considering live our daily lives we can't do so. Agriculture, travel, homes, all of these things have a massive impact on the world around us.

So you can leave the rabbit population alone and what happens is you get a hell of a lot of rabbits, the foxes do well out of it, but then the rabbits make a hell of a mess of farms and gardens.

When it comes down to it, the ecology of the British Isles is not one that has ever been without humanity, and we're so well integrated into it that we can't just take our hands off it and leave it to fend for itself. Not without getting a radically different set of habitats to those we consider 'natural' or 'desirable'.

Mutton



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 1508

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

cab wrote:


So you can leave the rabbit population alone and what happens is you get a hell of a lot of rabbits, the foxes do well out of it, but then the rabbits make a hell of a mess of farms and gardens.

.


Was wondering how many fox breeding seasons would increase the predator numbers enough to reduce the rabbits.
Also of course in terms of national population would need to count all the urban foxes. Don't think there are any urban rabbits.
Am aware of the population crashes that happen in the wilderness (as in US National Parks) etc. Also wondering whether there was anywhere in the UK where neither was hunted and what happened. Or indeed is there an online record anywhere of somewhere in the world where there has been an experiment/effort to leave predator-prey populations to sort themselves out/recover from man made interference. Just something of interest.

As I understand it we introduced rabbits to the UK a long time back - Medieval period manor houses had large heaps of earth as artificial warrens and they'd go and harvest them from time to time.

Also introduced rabbits to Australia, gorse to NZ, rats etc to unique islands. I think I heard that foxes were introduced to the US because fox hunters wanted to be able to hunt them. (Maybe cougar was a little too exciting.)

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Foxes don't eat many rabbits, only the sick, injured, old & very young.
They get most of their protein from field mice & voles & on the open moors slugs & snails.

Mutton



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 1508

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Ah, didn't realise that.

Do they eat the myxamatosis ones? We had more rabbits than usual this summer - half a dozen instead of one or two - all bounding around healthy then myxi set in. Now down to one that I see regularly.

Interesting about field voles - trying to manage the land to encourage them so can encourage barn owls.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mutton wrote:
Ah, didn't realise that.

Do they eat the myxamatosis ones? We had more rabbits than usual this summer - half a dozen instead of one or two - all bounding around healthy then myxi set in. Now down to one that I see regularly.

Interesting about field voles - trying to manage the land to encourage them so can encourage barn owls.

Yes they eat the myxamatosised rabbits.
A rabbit with little sight or hearing is easy prey.
A healthy rabbit with all its senses in tact is to alert & quick for a fox.

lottie



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I think polecats eat more rabbits round here than foxes---they certainly eat poultry--hope it's not illegal to remove them as we caught one in the fox trap---if it is then we let it go.

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mutton wrote:

As I understand it we introduced rabbits to the UK a long time back - Medieval period manor houses had large heaps of earth as artificial warrens and they'd go and harvest them from time to time.



William the conqueror was responsible for rabbits afaik

frewen



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 11405

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Ah - ok - I thought it was earlier (I thought the Romans introduced them)

Shaky history me

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

according to one of my tutors anyway. had a bit of a thing about hunting anything did william, responsible for the forrests as well which made him even more unpopular

frewen



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 11405

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 09 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

That makes sense

Didn't he have scandinavian blood and a dubious second marriage after the "danish fashion" ?

or am I imagining it?

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 09 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

not sure, the period i'm studying is a tad later, we only really looked at stuff like forest laws as the reason peasants were a tad pissed off.


there's a ton of really dubious stuff though. it doesn't get more dubious than murdering your king with a red hot poker up the jacksie.

frewen



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 11405

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 09 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

there's central heating and then there's

I really wish I had paid mroe attention in history lessons

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 09 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I am really enjoying my course. should have done this years back.

robin wood



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 09 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Most animals reproduce up to the carrying capacity of the environment and many, particularly predators, then have limiting factors on their reproduction. Foxes for instance have two limiting factors. In high mortality areas (urban foxes with many road kills) then all females will breed and litter size will be large. In low mortality areas litter size is restricted and many vixens do not breed. There was an excellent PhD done on foxes a few years ago which exploded many myths particularly about what they ate. The most interesting bits were published as a book "running with the fox" David Macdonald https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bt.x=0&bt.y=0&sortby=3&sts=t&tn=running+with+the+fox

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Downsizer Forum Index -> Conservation and Environment All times are GMT
Page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3
View Latest Posts View Latest Posts

 

Archive
Powered by php-BB © 2001, 2005 php-BB Group
Style by marsjupiter.com, released under GNU (GNU/GPL) license.
Copyright © 2004 marsjupiter.com