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Dishwashers - do you have one?
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Silas



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 10:04 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

mihto wrote:
Silas wrote:
Jesus Christ. We are talking about washing dishes here, its not f**kin rocket science. People have been doing it for quite a long time before dishwashers were invented, it really is not difficult, time consuming or even a chore, it takes a few minuets after a meal. I really find it difficult to take on board that you 'downsizers' all have dishwashing machines.


We have stoves as well. Ideally we should gather firewood in the bush for cooking.

Vacuum cleaners. Sure we did not need them if we lived in a cave?

Water boilers. Who needs tea? Modern invention and quite unnecessary to boot.

Electric irons. Our modern forefathers stuffed theirs with hot coals. Before that? furs do not need ironing.

Washing machines. Women should use the river. What else is it for?

Silas, this is a modern world. In many families both parents work. Time-saving household equipment makes the life of modern women bearable. There is zero - and I mean zero - need for anyone to heap more guilt on our shoulders. We have families, we organize the social life of everybody, we do all the stuff that is never credited and that needs a multi-functional brain to get off the ground. Our minds are in constant overdrive to keep the the schedules running.

Sure we use dishwashers and will do so for the rest of our lives. We will greedily grasp any new appliance which will give us space to breathe. We will chose low-power stuff and feel less guilty, but we refuse to go back to the kitchen and do our dishes barefoot and pregnant.

And we are bloody good Downsizers. The world would stop without us.



Yes, I agree with most of what you say, but dishwashers take longer, use more energy, save no time, need you to have more crockery and cutlery than you need, cost more money to use, cost a lot to manufacture in both monetary terms and energy - what is the point?

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Silas wrote:

No.We are a family of four,but more often six with the kids partners almost always around. Cab does exactly what I do and it really is 10 min absolute max.


Takes about the same amount of time for all of our dishes generated over two days, if we're too lazy to do the dishes before bed.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

colour it green wrote:

you do actually wash them.. don't you? like.. rub at the surfaces with a brush or sponge? - You are doing more than just rinsing them?


Most often glasses have just had water in them, so they get only a little more than a rinse. But yes, they do get a wipe too.

mihto



Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 3273
Location: West coast of Norway
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Silas wrote:
Yes, I agree with most of what you say, but dishwashers take longer, use more energy, save no time, need you to have more crockery and cutlery than you need, cost more money to use, cost a lot to manufacture in both monetary terms and energy - what is the point?


Silas, you really pee me off by not understanding the most basic parts of normal living.

The point is simple: the dishwasher works for us. We need it to get through our days. You have ways of doing your stuff, we have ways of doing ours. Every single family has different needs. Every single family has a right to decide for themselves how those needs are best met without being criticized by someone who is holier -than-though.

Life is full of absolute idiotic ways to use energy and resources. Many of these are powered by the interests of men. By hitting on a relatively innocent appliance like a dishwasher you hit below the belt. Housework is in many cases still women's responsibility, even in our modern world.

Don't go there, Silas, you hurt people in a way you cannot understand.

nats



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 2374
Location: Swindon but not a Swindonian
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

mihto wrote:
Silas wrote:
Yes, I agree with most of what you say, but dishwashers take longer, use more energy, save no time, need you to have more crockery and cutlery than you need, cost more money to use, cost a lot to manufacture in both monetary terms and energy - what is the point?


Silas, you really pee me off by not understanding the most basic parts of normal living.

The point is simple: the dishwasher works for us. We need it to get through our days. You have ways of doing your stuff, we have ways of doing ours. Every single family has different needs. Every single family has a right to decide for themselves how those needs are best met without being criticized by someone who is holier -than-though.

Life is full of absolute idiotic ways to use energy and resources. Many of these are powered by the interests of men. By hitting on a relatively innocent appliance like a dishwasher you hit below the belt. Housework is in many cases still women's responsibility, even in our modern world.

Don't go there, Silas, you hurt people in a way you cannot understand.


amen. Dishwashers save ME time. and my husband. We are not as super quick at doing the washing up as you. Obviously.....

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Silas wrote:

Yes, I agree with most of what you say, but dishwashers take longer, use more energy, save no time, need you to have more crockery and cutlery than you need, cost more money to use, cost a lot to manufacture in both monetary terms and energy - what is the point?


It just seems bizarre how long some of the contributors here seem to take to do the dishes by hand. You have to accept that if it is taking them all that long to do the dishes, a diswasher represents a significant saving in time and effort. The difference of opinion is really all to do with why it takes some people so very long to do what is self evidently (to us) not that big a deal.

I can't speak for how you cook, but it isn't like our cooking is particularly un-mucky or anything.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

mihto wrote:

Silas, you really pee me off by not understanding the most basic parts of normal living.

The point is simple: the dishwasher works for us. We need it to get through our days. You have ways of doing your stuff, we have ways of doing ours. Every single family has different needs. Every single family has a right to decide for themselves how those needs are best met without being criticized by someone who is holier -than-though.

Life is full of absolute idiotic ways to use energy and resources. Many of these are powered by the interests of men. By hitting on a relatively innocent appliance like a dishwasher you hit below the belt. Housework is in many cases still women's responsibility, even in our modern world.

Don't go there, Silas, you hurt people in a way you cannot understand.


None of that means that how we choose to go about things is above question. It isn't unreasonable for Silas to question the need/preference for using a dishwasher.

Marionb



Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 5263
Location: Mid-Wales
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Helen M wrote:
around a year ago I found the dishwasher would be run twice a day. Then life changed and one of things I found remarkable is how much laundry/washing up one person can create if they have little or no regard for the person cleaning it up or the energy used. I now use the washing machine probably 2-3 times a week, less in the summer. As for the dishwasher, it is there for big family meals that happen once in a blue moon. Mostly I wash as I go and even the wee two are capable of washing their plates after using them. doesn't mean the do


Absolutely agree Helen, I've found the exact same thing, altho its just me and my 22 yr old son now....

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15027
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Calm down, everyone. If you can't discuss it in a more civilised manner, it has no place in Downsizer chat. I have asterisked where appropriate.

On behalf of the mod team.

lottie



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Why?

Jo S



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 5174
Location: Somerset
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ah, you know that all is well with the world when the most controversial issue on DS is whether or not a dishwasher is an appropriate feature for one's kitchen...

Oh, hang on... someone just shot and killed his ex, his daughter and then himself and we're arguing about dishwashers?

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15027
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

lottie wrote:
Why?


in accordance with site guidelines.

Silas



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Well, this is why, the word 'Bollocks has been used at least three times to my knowledge prior to my post, but this is direct from a PM from a mod;


Silas,

I have deleted your reply "bollocks" to mihto in the dishwasher thread. If you disagree with her comments, please given your reasons in a civilised manner, or withdraw from debate if you are unable to post within site rules. Consider this your first warming of innappropriate posting behaviour in this instance.

Thank you
Claire
on behalf of the moderating team.

Nell Merionwen



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 16300
Location: Beautiful Derbyshire
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Marionb wrote:
Helen M wrote:
around a year ago I found the dishwasher would be run twice a day. Then life changed and one of things I found remarkable is how much laundry/washing up one person can create if they have little or no regard for the person cleaning it up or the energy used. I now use the washing machine probably 2-3 times a week, less in the summer. As for the dishwasher, it is there for big family meals that happen once in a blue moon. Mostly I wash as I go and even the wee two are capable of washing their plates after using them. doesn't mean the do


Absolutely agree Helen, I've found the exact same thing, altho its just me and my 22 yr old son now....




I think the "downsizeryness" of people isn't in direct ratio to how many appliances make your life easier. It is more about making a conscious effort to reduce the amount of energy we use, waste we produce and the ethical way we live. You may well have a dishwasher that in itself is no big thing. If however you are running it needlessly with one cup in it(deliberate exaggeration), or because you simply can't be bothered to try to do things more ethically then yes perhaps you should look at the useage of said appliance.
However, people sitting in judgement of others does not sit happily with me. I think if people want a dishwasher then that is their decision. It is more helpful for people to offer support and share their knowledge to find a more economical alternative when possible. Sitting and playing god over others is wrong! wether we are talking about dishwashers or more deep seated issues.
Some of the tone of some posts are just controversial for the sake of it imho. Instead of having people look at their own usage and finding a differing opinion helpful all this does is aggravate and upset.

Gervase



Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 09 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Oh dear, here we go again!
Shame really - bollocks is such a satisfying epithet. More satisfying than 'ps'
But to drag the thread back to dishwashers; I don;t see why it has to be viewed as a feminist issue. I do most of the washing up at home, and, like cab and Silas, don't see it as a huge chore. I've had a dishwasher before, but it required extra plates, cutlery and glasses to get the m ost out of it, and it wasn't suitable for bone-handled knives, wooded stuff and fine china, so it was only used occasionally. I know M-J would like one, but I've no strong feelings one way or the other, and am happy to be a good little scrubber, to be honest.

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