Winter feeding

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jamanda
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Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35056
Location: Devon

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 10 7:41 pm Post subject: Winter feeding
I went and put some fondant on my bees this afternoon. There were none flying, but when I put my head close to the hive they were all buzzing away inside, so it seems to be hopeful so far. How are everyone else's doing in this cold weather?

alison
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 10 7:47 pm Post subject:
I went over on Christmas day, to have a look, as it was still and sunny, if not very cold. They were both buzzing, and I slipped some fondant in both hives. I got this far last year, so here's hoping these do a bit better,

joanne

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7100
Location: Morecambe, Lancashire

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 10 7:48 pm Post subject:
Dunno - That's what I'd planned to do today - I'm going to try and make some bee candy tomorrow and get Martin to put it on for me - Don't think an open toed cast is really the ideal footwear for checking bee's - I do however think I've lost one colony - the smallest & weakest one - I listened the other day and only heard 3 of the 4 colonies buzzing

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 10 7:52 pm Post subject:

alison wrote:

They were both buzzing

Do you only have two?

alison
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 10 7:53 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

alison wrote:

They were both buzzing

Do you only have two?

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 10 7:55 pm Post subject:

oliver90owner

Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 85

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 10 4:57 pm Post subject:

Questions:
Why all this feeding?
Are the hives short of stores?
Surely that was sorted out in the autumn?
Will they not munch merrily away at the fondant and slow uncapping of honey or honey-sugar stores?
Will that likely stop them moving far away from the feed hole?
Won't that possibly delay the spring build-up due to a possible shortage of laying space in the brood frames, if they are still filled with honey stores?
Would fondant, at what 12 -14%(?) water, mean the bees will have to go out to search for water sooner?
Is this really good for the colony?

I will not even be checking/disturbing mine (hefting and feeding if necessary) until February. I know they are alive from the cappings falling from the OMFs. I know they had plenty of stores gong into winter. I hope they start/increase brood rearing next month - to have a strong foraging force ready for the first heavy flow (OSR?). I will feed pollen-substitute patties if I think it necessary, for early accelerated brooding. What am I doing wrong?

Regards, RAB

jamanda
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Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35056
Location: Devon

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 10 6:33 pm Post subject:

I don't think you are doing anything wrong - just differently. If you ask a roomful of beeks how to do any thing you'll get as many different answers as there are people.
As a very novice beekeeper I am still just following the advice given by my local association. I used fondant last year and it worked ! But they had very little stores then as it was a new colony I acquired quite late in the season. This year they did have plenty of honey left on them so maybe they won't need the fondant?

oliver90owner

Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 85

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 10 7:51 pm Post subject:

Jamanda,

So right. And my post had all the information for you to consider.

Reliance on fondant - cluster may not move again, may not be able to move again until the weather gets warmer

Shortage of brood space when needed.

Honey is 17-19% moisture. Bees have made it like that for millenia. That might just be an advantage of feeding fondant - less water made during stores consumption, so a drier hive. But I doubt it. I keep mine dry by careful use of OMFs and insulation

Think about it, read up reports on it and you will find your own way. I think it would be very similar to mine when you consider all your actions last autumn (feeding to prepare for the winter) and if you want them to collect the maximum honey crop next year (strong build-up in the spring).

You may find that a lot of those in your local association are good at giving advice but if you were to ask "why?" they might be hard pressed to give a better answer than "it works". Some think a colony still alive in spring is a success, but that is not the whole story.

Compare wood with polyhives (I am assuming you have a National hive) and you will find comments like 'brood on the outermost frames' and '3 weeks earlier spring development compared to wooden hives.

Now I have nothing against wooden hives (I have WBC, standard National, jumbo National and Dartingtons) and have never used a plastic hive yet (that is possibly about to change).

I have noticed that my Dartingtons have brood completely across the frame - wall to wall - when I leave the 50mm expanded polystyrene insulation on into, say, April. That is not without reason. The nest has to be maintained at middle 30s Celsius for the brood. That is not attainable without the insulation (maybe 50mm is more than actually needed). But if you compare with a National, where there are likely 2 frames at each end without brood and the nest does not extend completely across the frames until the weather is summer-like rather than spring-like. (A Dartington is 14 x 12 but extends to 15 or 16 frames in the main body, so the end frames are only at the end of the hive nearer mid-summer. It has space for rather more frames than above).

One might just instruct a novice on what to do, but at some point that novice needs to start thinking for themselves, learning the underlying reasons for any actions. Why things are done that way and is that really the best way.

Yes, often lots of options, but some may be compromises or only adequate. My biggest problem after nearly ten years is to have just the right kit available at the right time! Last year all my nucs were in use and I still needed some spare space, so had to quickly construct another couple.

I hope this gets you thinking and asking those beeks at the association for the reasons, not just accepting the instructions.

Regards, RAB

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35056
Location: Devon

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 10 7:57 pm Post subject:
Very interesting. Thank you. And welcome to the forum.

Brandon

Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 114
Location: mid wales

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 10 10:29 pm Post subject:
nice to see you here RAB. regards brandon

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 10 11:40 pm Post subject:

oliver90owner wrote:

Nothing IMHO apart from 1/ feeding pollen substitute which from most of what I've read is next to useless & in many instances can cause digestive problems.
Plant or locate your colonies near to abundant willow & you wont need a sub.
2/ letting your bees near OSR which is one of the most poisoned crops (neonicitinoid insecticide) & the resultant honey although abundant not much better than refined sugar anyway.

lottie

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 10 7:03 pm Post subject:
Glad someone shares my opinion of OSR---I'd be ashamed to sell it as honey.

T.G

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 7280
Location: Somewhere you're not

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 10 7:07 pm Post subject:
can i ask what OSR is?

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35056
Location: Devon

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 10 7:13 pm Post subject:

The.Grange wrote:

can i ask what OSR is?

Oil Seed Rape. Bees collecting it make very thick granular honey which many people don't like and is difficult to extract - for the bees themselves too apparently.

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