Living on land with planning permission.

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Living on land with planning permission.
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digit

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Neath,South Wales

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 5:38 pm Post subject:
If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 5:45 pm Post subject:

digit wrote:

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time

That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer

or have a bbq in the kitchen area

digit

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 88
Location: Neath,South Wales

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 6:09 pm Post subject:

onemanband wrote:

digit wrote:

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time

That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer

or have a bbq in the kitchen area

Once you plaster the walls, you'll be charge council tax

I've just built my own house and i lived in a caravan on site, i had to pay the lower band council tax on the caravan and as soon as i plastered the walls inside the house the council wanted to charge me council tax on the house as well

mark

Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Leeds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 6:17 pm Post subject:

I would take legal advice on this. The law is complicated.

However it does seem that if you use land or property which has certain permissions for another use that constitutes a change of use and can invalidate the original planning permissions.

ie I use land approved for a home as a workshop - or I use land approved for a permanent dwelling as a caravan park.

Not only is the new use not legal - but it can invalidate the original permissions.

Eg if I have a chip shop and let it to someone who uses it as a general store - then take possession of it I may well have to reapply for the chip shop use - even though permissions have already been given because of different use in between.

I'm not expert and this area is governed by case law - and some cases imply opposite results so their is plenty of potential for long expensive legal battles! So take I would advice.

(I am a Landlord and not a lawyer!)

T.G

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 7280
Location: Somewhere you're not

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 6:39 pm Post subject:

digit wrote:

onemanband wrote:

digit wrote:

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time

That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer

or have a bbq in the kitchen area

Once you plaster the walls, you'll be charge council tax

Just make sure the internal walls are finished well and go for an industrial look

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 7:19 pm Post subject:

Ok that sounds like;

If I don't put anything on area of house and my accomodation is temporary - that's ok.
Workshop is more for domestic use - motorbikes and such things - so that's ok
Builders yard would be bigger than what's presently in my garden now, but I won't be manufacturing or selling from there - just storage of equipment, surpluss and stock materials. Anyhow would be no different to self-build clutter. So guess that would be ok.

It also sounds like :

Not having enough funds to complete the build is ok.
But doing something which implies I have no intention of finishing build - such as change of use or preventing construction continuing (ie placing accomodation on house slab)- then that is not ok.

I guess having the funds to complete build or a proper programme of works would help if there was an issue with living on-site but there is no need for me to otherwise provide such information ?

It's not that I intend not to build. Just that if I go down this route I would only do it if I can be certain of not being evicted if house was not built in a certain timescale.

gil
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18409

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 12 10:59 pm Post subject:

I don't know whether it is different in Scotland, or whether the 're-crofting scheme' is different again, but DS member cassy might have some useful info.

They're on land with PP for self-build, and several similar plots near them in various stages of design/build/finished, over different timescales.
Apparently it took one chap 10 years to complete his self-build - he did it all himself in between working, which helped raise the funds to do the build.

We were talking about whether the council had a different way of dealing with folk who really were 'self-building', and those who would just throw money at it and hire contractors for every aspect (much faster).

wipka84

Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 221
Location: Essex, UK

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 12 9:47 am Post subject:

Provided you start the development and get it signed off by the LA the time limits for the planning consent fall away.

There may be conditions as well within your planning consent that stipulate a period for when, from commencement, the development must be completed by.

The local billing authority may then, if you delay development, serve a notice on you giving a time period when they consider the development to have completed by and start charging council tax from that date, regardless of the physical state of the building. As far as I know, there is no set criteria from when a new build property is deemed habitable which would stop them from doing this. This was introduced to prevent builders leaving developments as a shell until a sale had been secured and avoiding council tax.

You may also encounter problems by stretching development over a long period of time, keeping up with building regulations, as when it comes to sign off, what you may have undertaken in line with BR, could be outdated and require changes before sign off will be given.

mark

Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Leeds

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 12 10:01 am Post subject:

>just storage of equipment, surpluss and stock materials.<

This could be the tricky bit. If you are not progressing the build but appear to be using the land to support another business as its prime use then you could find you invalidate your original planning permission.

You don't say what is included in the planning application re workshops and storage.
There is a difference between restoration and new build here I think. I f you are restoring out buildings are considered as ancilliary to the main house - if their is no habitable permanent dwelling constructed as in a delayed new build yet their status may be different - as they become the main use the land is put to.
If they are their mainly to help in the building of the house no problem - but if you try to run another business form their which is visible in its comings and goings you could come cropper if you don't have prior approval
Do check with your local planning officer
The point is that time limits can mean nothing when the property has been used for a different useage

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 12 11:14 am Post subject:

wipka84 wrote:

Provided you start the .......................................

That all sounds fair enough.
Not to bothered by council tax issue as its something you pay anyway.
Re; building regs - yes could be an issue. I guess if work is done in stages that don't take too long from start to finish and are passed as you go then that shouldn't be a big issue.

All stuff to consider. Ta

stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 12 11:23 am Post subject:

Building regulations approval is non retrospective, you can not be asked to improve once the notice has been issued if you have gone for full planning with BR.

If you are doing the job "on a notice" calling the Building Inspector in for each stage of your cards, if they still issue stages cards, then I suspect that you would need to comply with the current regs as they are at that time you do that part of the project and get it inspected and passed. Interesting issue that one, I am not 100% sure.

sg

cassy

Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 1047
Location: South West Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 12 11:48 am Post subject:

gil wrote:

I don't know whether it is different in Scotland, or whether the 're-crofting scheme' is different again, but DS member cassy might have some useful info.

Don't know how useful it will be but have PM'd what I know.

Have you come across Chapter 7? Their planning info might be helpful for establishing whether running your business from the site would cause problems.

Best of luck with it!

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 12 12:07 pm Post subject:

mark wrote:

>just storage of equipment, surpluss and stock materials.<

This could be the tricky bit..................................

That all makes sense.

I see no problems with having a builders yard at an existing house as long as its fenced off and not an eyesore, but your points on change of use could well be a problem if I dragged my feet on the build.

My other main option is to move 30 miles north into an existing property. 99% of my work is south of me so I would effectively make myself unemployed till I re-establish (in a less affluent area). I suppose this is the downsizing option.
The land with PP option would enable me to stay in this area and remain mortgage free and with abundant work. However it is looking like this option means I would have to show some serious financial commitment to completing a build. I suppose this option is actually more upsizing.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8600
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 12 12:08 pm Post subject:

stumbling goat wrote:

ISTR when I did that the cards to be returned had a date on them...unless things have changed since 2004/6....we did get asked why hadn't we started/finished. (combination of prat plan designer, prat builder before I got a really good one and Serious Snow

)

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 12 12:35 pm Post subject:

cassy wrote:

gil wrote:

I don't know whether it is different in Scotland, or whether the 're-crofting scheme' is different again, but DS member cassy might have some useful info.

Yes thanks for that.
And thanks everyone else for advice.

Thinking now that if I go down the land with PP route I should look at cheaper plots leaving me with more £ to fund a build(and therefore less chance of being turfed off) - but that means I may not get the space I require

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